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  • #16
    Originally posted by chad72 View Post
    Will Champ be 100% again? Rahim Moore is on IR, is he not? Vickerson, will he be back in game shape on time?

    Is it wishful thinking expecting the D to be healthy and cohesive? That is my true question.
    Vickerson is out for the year unfortunately.

    Moore can return for the AFCCG if we got that far.

    DRC/Wolfe could return at some point though.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by chad72 View Post
      This is where you are missing the point. Complementary football is what I call it.

      When a D gets a turnover, what is the job of the O to do, cash in on it and put up points on the board? Did Peyton and the Broncos' O cash in on the opportunities? Yes. Ravens turned over the ball once in last year's playoff game vs Broncos but the Broncos did not cash it into points. So, in this case Peyton and the O did what he had to do to cash in on it.

      When the O stumbled and gave up a fumble, did the D give up a TD almost every time a turnover happened? The answer is yes. When the O got stagnant, did the D give it a lift? The answer is no, at least till overtime came along.

      Scheme or personnel, the D lacked aggression to put the game away. Until they can do so in a playoff scenario, the Broncos are still going to watch the SB from their couches.

      The talent assembled on the D does not reflect in the results, IMO. It does on the offensive side, way more consistently than on the defensive side. This D can do better than being 20th or worse in several categories across the board.
      And yet Manning did exactly what he needed to do to win these games? Got it...

      If Manning can't overcome his obvious issues when the temperature drops in the playoffs, then the Broncos will be watching the SB on the couch every year while he is here regardless. Its up to the team to rise up to the occasion, that includes your untouchable Peyton Manning.
      sigpic

      Defense wins championships

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DarkHorse26 View Post
        And yet Manning did exactly what he needed to do to win these games? Got it...

        If Manning can't overcome his obvious issues when the temperature drops in the playoffs, then the Broncos will be watching the SB on the couch every year while he is here regardless. Its up to the team to rise up to the occasion, that includes your untouchable Peyton Manning.
        He is not untouchable. He has his shortcomings (does not have a gun of an arm in cold weather, doesn't do many QB sneaks, doesn't evade you like a Big Ben) but he gives you a chance in every game and that is all you can ask for.

        I still wonder when the day will come when he gets defensive support like Eli did in his 2 playoff runs where the Giants did not give up more than 20 pts in any playoff game.

        Maybe that is just a pipe dream of mine that will never happen.

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        • #19
          I agree that the team needs to experience some frigid weather to prepare for the post-season and get used to the tougher conditions, but can't we just put this myth to bed already?
          In Peyton Manning's last 8 games under these weather conditions [30 degrees or lower], he had a streak of 7 straight games where he completed at least 70% of his passes. In fact, here are his numbers through those 8 games:

          177-243 (72.8%), 2129 yards (8.8), 17/10, 105.5 QB Rating

          This is not the production of a weak-armed choker who folds in cold weather. His record during that stretch? 4-4. It's a team game folks. During that stretch, his offenses averaged 26.5 points per game. That would be good enough to win under most circumstances. That average when compared to scoring this year would rank that team 6th in the league.

          Other factors?

          Did you notice most of those games (in fact all but 2) were road games? Most teams fare much worse on the road than at home. If you look at the standings from 2012, 24/32 teams or 75% of all teams finished with a road record at .500 or worse. Going back 5 years, 70.6% of all teams finished .500 or worse on the road.

          http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/1...r-myth-or-fact
          All offseason, every mention of Manning and the Broncos is prefaced with “it ended so badly in the playoffs.” You’d think the Broncos lost by 35 points. You know, like in 2011.

          So the Patriots didn’t lose by 15 points at home to the same Ravens? The Packers didn’t give up 579 yards to San Francisco in a 45-31 loss that wasn’t even as close as the score?

          Every team but Baltimore was eliminated in some fashion last year. Twenty more did not even qualify for the playoffs.

          Out of the 11 playoff games in 2012, the Broncos played in the only one where neither team led by more than seven points.

          It was literally the closest, toughest-fought playoff game of the year and it still took a miracle play that you never see in that situation by the Ravens to pull it out.

          http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...january/23412/

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          • #20
            Lost in all this talk is the fact that Manning had a drive to tie the Ravens game late in the 4th. qtr. as well as a similar drive in the Pats game. I agree that the cold affects his game, but I think it is a bit short sighted to try to say those loses were even mostly his fault. Manning wasn't blowing the coverage in the Ravens game or muffing the punt in the Pats game.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by chad72 View Post
              Listen, you guys need a defense that can hold on to a lead, cold weather or warm weather.

              Let us see. Flacco postseason game, 30 seconds to go, 70 yards to go, the D had a chance and blew it. Then, 3rd qtr. of Pats game, D has chances to put down clamps, they blow it again. Yesterday, vs Alex Smith, almost blew a 35-21 lead again.

              Peyton turned it over just once during the above mentioned time frames in all those 3 games that I quoted above.

              If you want Peyton to put up 40 pts to save your behind every time, that is not a recipe for playoff winning, hands down.
              Quoted to show my distaste of Manning fans. What a perfect example of "it's never Manning".
              Denver Broncos GM
              Originally posted by Mosk
              Joey Bosa ~ Jason Spriggs ~ Darian Thompson ~ Nick Vannett ~ Paul Perkins ~ Dan Vitale

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by chad72 View Post
                Listen, you guys need a defense that can hold on to a lead, cold weather or warm weather.

                Let us see. Flacco postseason game, 30 seconds to go, 70 yards to go, the D had a chance and blew it. Then, 3rd qtr. of Pats game, D has chances to put down clamps, they blow it again. Yesterday, vs Alex Smith, almost blew a 35-21 lead again.

                Peyton turned it over just once during the above mentioned time frames in all those 3 games that I quoted above.

                If you want Peyton to put up 40 pts to save your behind every time, that is not a recipe for playoff winning, hands down.
                I agree and all of the popular excuses some folks like to point to isn't going to change it. The defense is the weak link, specifically the pass defense. If the offense struggles very much against a good team, we're in trouble.
                ”Those who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither.” Ben Franklin

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by chad72 View Post
                  He is not untouchable. He has his shortcomings (does not have a gun of an arm in cold weather, doesn't do many QB sneaks, doesn't evade you like a Big Ben) but he gives you a chance in every game and that is all you can ask for.

                  I still wonder when the day will come when he gets defensive support like Eli did in his 2 playoff runs where the Giants did not give up more than 20 pts in any playoff game.

                  Maybe that is just a pipe dream of mine that will never happen.
                  If the Broncos had a defense that didn't give up more than 20 points a game, we'd be undefeated and those 'ole boys still around from the '72 Dolphins would be getting ready to retire that bottle for good. And it's sad, because we are very talented on defense, yet just can't seem to put it together completely.
                  ”Those who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither.” Ben Franklin

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by THEdraftnik View Post
                    Quoted to show my distaste of Manning fans. What a perfect example of "it's never Manning".
                    You should read my posts as a whole to understand what I am talking about. I acknowledged his shortcomings but felt he needs more help than he is getting. Maybe you didn't bother to look at them.

                    I'll throw you a bone. Why is it that Peyton led teams play soft on D? This Broncos' D is suffering the same fate that previously led Peyton teams have. I have to be irrational enough to say that Peyton magically induces "lethargy and conservatism" in a defense so that they can get used to playing with a lead, have 30 plus points every single game, and forget to do their job to close the game in a tight situation. Maybe his coaches magically stop being aggressive on D because they are conservative ones like John Fox and Tony Dungy. Tebow on the other hand, does great cheer leading to get vets like Dawkins and others to play great D because their chances of winning the game depends on it thus keeping the score of games lower.

                    But if that is what you want me to say, I will say it.

                    Peyton has to play better coverage, come up with sacks, come up with INTs when it hits his hand on defense and field punts too, yep, that is what needs to happen .
                    Last edited by chad72; 12-02-2013, 03:09 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by chad72 View Post
                      You should read my posts as a whole to understand what I am talking about. I acknowledged his shortcomings but felt he needs more help than he is getting. Maybe you didn't bother to look at them.

                      I'll throw you a bone. Why is it that Peyton led teams play soft on D? This Broncos' D is suffering the same fate that previously led Peyton teams have. I have to be irrational enough to say that Peyton magically induces "lethargy and conservatism" in a defense so that they can get used to playing with a lead, have 30 plus points every single game, and forget to do their job to close the game in a tight situation. Maybe his coaches magically stop being aggressive on D because they are conservative ones like John Fox and Tony Dungy. Tebow on the other hand, does great cheer leading to get vets like Dawkins and others to play great D because their chances of winning the game depends on it thus keeping the score of games lower.

                      But if that is what you want me to say, I will say it.

                      Peyton has to play better coverage, come up with sacks, come up with INTs when it hits his hand on defense and field punts too, yep, that is what needs to happen .
                      How many stops did our defense produce in overtime against the patriots?

                      How many times in overtime against the Patriots did the defense let Brady drive down the field?

                      Do you remember how the (most recent) chiefs game was won? I'll answer this one for you: A critical stop on fourth down after the refs missed a forced fumble and recovery by our defense.

                      And to answer your question, Peyton-lead teams play soft defense because Manning does in fact put up 30-40 points a game. When you're offense can score points at will it allows your defense to gamble and try to come up with big plays that have much higher risk. When you see a defensive lineman run past the running back, they are going for a sack. When you see a defensive back jump a pass that goes for a big play they are going for a big play.

                      What Manning needs to do is he needs to put on his big boy pants and suck up the fact that is cold, and then throw a catchable pass to his receivers. Against the patriots he didn't do that. On his two interceptions against the chiefs he didn't do that. Against the Ravens in the fourth quarter and overtime he didn't do that. Right now he has the most talented team around him that he's ever been a part of. We shouldn't lose any games with the talent we have. We shouldn't be messing up hand offs. We shouldn't have 10 penalties a game. Manning shouldn't have 9 lost fumbles or whatever his total is now. Our defence handed us the game against the patriots, Manning lost it. Not the return men although they certainly played their part on the outcome. I don't care that if was 24 to 14 before Manning got the ball after half. It was 24 to 31 before he did anything about it. That's not "complementary football".

                      Edit: new phone typing skills are not refined
                      Last edited by THEdraftnik; 12-02-2013, 03:47 PM.
                      Denver Broncos GM
                      Originally posted by Mosk
                      Joey Bosa ~ Jason Spriggs ~ Darian Thompson ~ Nick Vannett ~ Paul Perkins ~ Dan Vitale

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by THEdraftnik View Post
                        Do you remember how the (most recent) chiefs game was won? I'll answer this one for you: A critical stop on fourth down after the refs missed a forced fumble and recovery by our defense.
                        Nothing to do with Manning leading long drives and throwing up over 400 yards and 5 TD's ?

                        Manning has shortcomings and does make mistakes so he should be held accountable... but you go too far the other way. He is having an MVP type season and has led Denver to the #1 record in the conference.

                        No one in the league is having a better season then Manning, so before you trash him for the 2 losses maybe you should remember the 10 wins.

                        He is human and is not perfect all of the time.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
                          Nothing to do with Manning leading long drives and throwing up over 400 yards and 5 TD's ?

                          Manning has shortcomings and does make mistakes so he should be held accountable... but you go too far the other way. He is having an MVP type season and has led Denver to the #1 record in the conference.

                          No one in the league is having a better season then Manning, so before you trash him for the 2 losses maybe you should remember the 10 wins.

                          He is human and is not perfect all of the time.
                          With our talent he should be throwing 4 touchdowns a game. A 5 touchdown performance isn't impressive to me, it's simply another day and it's also a day he threw two awful interceptions. He isn't Orton or Tebow, and he doesn't have their lack of talent around them. I'm happy when he plays like Manning but when he's almost losing us Games that we can't afford to lose I will not give him slack.

                          This team has yet to reach perfection and each day we are happy with mediocrity (relative to our potential), each day we don't get better is wasted. Do you think we're getting better?

                          I don't want to be another failed dream team project.
                          Denver Broncos GM
                          Originally posted by Mosk
                          Joey Bosa ~ Jason Spriggs ~ Darian Thompson ~ Nick Vannett ~ Paul Perkins ~ Dan Vitale

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                          • #28
                            Five TD pass performance not impressive? Football has lost its exciting appeal apparently.
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by THEdraftnik View Post
                              With our talent he should be throwing 4 touchdowns a game. A 5 touchdown performance isn't impressive to me, it's simply another day and it's also a day he threw two awful interceptions. He isn't Orton or Tebow, and he doesn't have their lack of talent around them. I'm happy when he plays like Manning but when he's almost losing us Games that we can't afford to lose I will not give him slack.

                              This team has yet to reach perfection and each day we are happy with mediocrity (relative to our potential), each day we don't get better is wasted. Do you think we're getting better?

                              I don't want to be another failed dream team project.
                              whaaaaaa? a 5 TD day isn't impressive? umm do you mean when you play Madden??
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Yup, I agree. Bring on the cold and snow already. :thumb:

                                Always the most memorable games!

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