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Why is the talk about who is better more dependent on Super Bowls than MVPs?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    Rodgers lost a game where HE put up 48 points, yet got a L.

    Dumb argument, again, shocking, not.

    If only Brees/Rodgers/Peyton could have bad games in the playoffs and still win like Brady does.
    A single game renders the argument invalid?

    That's a dumb comment.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by RandomVariable View Post
      Way more? Manning's advantage in MVP awards (two) equals Brady's advantage in SB rings (two.) And the MVP award isn't usually given to the "most valuable player." It's usually given to the player with the most impressive stats. These two aren't mutually exclusive, but they also don't have to coincide. And since Manning has had a better supporting cast on offense, it makes sense that he would have more MVPs.

      Why would regular season MVP mean more than SB MVP though? Brady has more SB MVP awards than Peyton.
      lol. You're still trying I see. Of course you would post in this thread.

      The Super Bowl MVP isn't usually give to the "most valuable player of the Super Bowl." It's usually given to the most notable player on the team that wins. One could argue sometimes the best player is on the losing team. Really Vinatieri should have won at least 2 of the 3 for New England. Terrell Owens was the best player in their meeting (on a broken leg, no less), but the Eagles didn't win, so he didn't get it.

      To answer your question: Regular season MVP is performance over the course of 16 games; Super Bowl MVP is performance over the course of 1 game. One is a stretch of consistent performance; the other is being the most notable player in 1 game.

      The regular season MVP is about an individual player's productivity and importance relative to a team. The Super Bowl rings go to the team that was the best at the end of the year.

      Really the rings argument for a QB is overvalued for determining the greatest at a position. Answer the following, no fluff to the answers, just yes or no, based on careers in a wrap:

      -Is Bradshaw better than Brady and Aikman?
      -Is Bradshaw as good as Montana?
      -Are Dilfer, Johnson, and Flacco equal to or better than Manning, Marino, Young, Tarkenton and Fouts?

      Originally posted by RandomVariable View Post
      A single game renders the argument invalid?

      That's a dumb comment.
      You're sidestepping the point.

      As you may have read (though I doubt) in another thread, I posted Brady's illustrious playoff performances. He's been barely relevant to most Patriots victories, and had literally NOTHING to do with their first Super Bowl. The only game where he mattered was the one against Carolina.
      Last edited by Doogansquest; 12-05-2013, 02:10 PM.

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      • #18
        And Brady's track record hasnt been great lately either.

        Should of lost or at least went to OT vs Bal in 2011, lost to them two other times, a stinker vs the Jets, a stinker vs the Giants both times.

        Had a bad game vs SD in 06 but bailed out.

        But he's perfect and can do no wrong!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RandomVariable View Post
          A single game renders the argument invalid?

          That's a dumb comment.
          No, Rodgers has pretty good postseason numbers, just because his team around him wasnt that good, doesnt mean he's a bad playoff QB.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by RandomVariable View Post
            To me, this speaks volumes. I could never imagine Brady praying and begging God on the sideline to let him win.

            The Colts took a 38-34 lead late in the fourth quarter of the AFC Championship Game. With one minute remaining on the clock and the ball in the hands of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, Manning looked for assistance from above. "I've never done this before in my life. I've never prayed during a game. I'm watching the scoreboard and my hands come together. I'm in prayer position. I just said,˜Dear Lord, one time can you just not let Tom make this comeback? Allow us to win this game and get to the Super Bowl. I probably added in there that Tom already has three Super Bowl rings and he doesn't really need another at this point. I tried to make it a fair prayer."

            http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ednesday-night

            Obviously Manning and Brady are never on the field at the same time and thus don't play against one another. But to deny that Brady doesn't get into Peyton's head is silly. Peyton dies a little inside every time Tom beats him.
            The whole praying thing is just a figure of speech (although I do believe he's telling the truth). He said that for television because it's a great "story." Manning is very charismatic and he could be a commentator/analyst one day, if he wanted to be. (Could be a coach, too.) I'm not one for prayer personally, but I seriously doubt others who are into prayer have never done it. Players kneel, bow their heads in a praying position, and hold hands on the sidelines all the time during games when it's close or a lot's on the line. It's not uncommon.
            Last edited by Conner13; 12-05-2013, 02:13 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RandomVariable View Post
              To me, this speaks volumes. I could never imagine Brady praying and begging God on the sideline to let him win.

              The Colts took a 38-34 lead late in the fourth quarter of the AFC Championship Game. With one minute remaining on the clock and the ball in the hands of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, Manning looked for assistance from above. "I've never done this before in my life. I've never prayed during a game. I'm watching the scoreboard and my hands come together. I'm in prayer position. I just said,˜Dear Lord, one time can you just not let Tom make this comeback? Allow us to win this game and get to the Super Bowl. I probably added in there that Tom already has three Super Bowl rings and he doesn't really need another at this point. I tried to make it a fair prayer."

              http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ednesday-night

              Obviously Manning and Brady are never on the field at the same time and thus don't play against one another. But to deny that Brady doesn't get into Peyton's head is silly. Peyton dies a little inside every time Tom beats him.
              Yeah, speaks volumes that Peyton did what 100% of humanity does in a moment of extreme tension and desperation. Go figure they know there's something bigger than themselves.

              That said, Manning executed on his last drive and they took the lead. How did that last drive go for Brady?

              Oh yeah...he threw a pick.

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              • #22
                and what is brady's record since they stopped cheating? oh yea thats what i thought...

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                • #23
                  Well, Brady has lost his last 3 playoff games vs a Manning (since 2006). If he meets Peyton again, I expect that to continue. Time will tell.

                  Back to the topic. QB ability is not a function of SBs won by team. Having said that, regular season records without accompanying playoff accomplishments is definitely a black mark on Peyton's resume, to some extent, especially in the games he did not play well enough to give his team a chance. The ones he did so but his team lost, I won't hold it against him, we all know that.

                  So, while SB rings can be used as a tie-breaker (due to which Brady will fare better than Peyton at this point in time in the list of NFL QBs of all time), SB rings are not the beginning or the end for judging a QB. Brady has the regular season accomplishments to go with his SB rings. So, objectively speaking, he will have a higher place in the list of all time QBs due to the tie-breaker. However, Peyton's QB ability is second to none, and is something that Brady emulates as well (if you ask him).

                  One does not have to talk down or diminish what the other one has done to embellish the other, IMO. Once these guys are gone, I don't think Brees or Rodgers will have near the rivalry that Brady and Peyton do. One of a kind, enjoy them instead of arguing over them.

                  Peace.
                  Last edited by chad72; 12-05-2013, 02:22 PM.

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                  • #24
                    RV This is not the TOM BRADY THREAD OR FORUM............Why don't you go to the Pats forum where they will appreciate your babble.
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                    • #25
                      Haha this argument is so dumb, we all know the truth. Manning is in fact a better qb than Brady. Side by side, skill to skill, Manning is better, anyone who actually thinks otherwise does not watch football. Could you IMAAGINE manning having the time to throw the ball that Brady has been given in his career ... oh dear lord he'd put up 100 points a game!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
                        lol. You're still trying I see. Of course you would post in this thread.

                        The Super Bowl MVP isn't usually give to the "most valuable player of the Super Bowl." It's usually given to the most notable player on the team that wins. One could argue sometimes the best player is on the losing team. Really Vinatieri should have won at least 2 of the 3 for New England. Terrell Owens was the best player in their meeting (on a broken leg, no less), but the Eagles didn't win, so he didn't get it.

                        To answer your question: Regular season MVP is performance over the course of 16 games; Super Bowl MVP is performance over the course of 1 game. One is a stretch of consistent performance; the other is being the most notable player in 1 game.

                        The regular season MVP is about an individual player's productivity and importance relative to a team. The Super Bowl rings go to the team that was the best at the end of the year.

                        Really the rings argument for a QB is overvalued for determining the greatest at a position. Answer the following, no fluff to the answers, just yes or no, based on careers in a wrap:

                        -Is Bradshaw better than Brady and Aikman?
                        -Is Bradshaw as good as Montana?
                        -Are Dilfer, Johnson, and Flacco equal to or better than Manning, Marino, Young, Tarkenton and Fouts?
                        most valuable player =/= best player. Terrell Owns could have been the best player (debateable) but that does not mean he was the most valuable. That's akin to trying to decide who is most valuable based solely on stats.

                        Regular season MVP is based on 16 games, and most of those games are against poor competition that will not see the playoffs. Manning is very good at padding his stats against lesser opponents. Hence the Star Wars numbers. The SB MVP is based on performance against the top team from the opposing conference in a high pressure, do or die situation in which both teams are vying for something every other team strives to achieve at the beginning of every season.

                        The claim that Vinatieri should have been SB MVP is also absurd. Vinatieri was not responsible for the drives which put the team within FG range. He was on the field for probably less than 10 seconds in each game. Most other kickers would have made those FGs - it's not like he was attempting from 60 yards. His FG against Oakland in the snow was impressive though.

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                        • #27
                          Who cares if he prayed?

                          Hell, i pray during sports games, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

                          Hell, it ended up working lol.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
                            RV This is not the TOM BRADY THREAD OR FORUM............Why don't you go to the Pats forum where they will appreciate your babble.
                            This..........

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
                              RV This is not the TOM BRADY THREAD OR FORUM............Why don't you go to the Pats forum where they will appreciate your babble.
                              The OP started a debate about Brady vs Manning. How is it not at least partially about Brady?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RandomVariable View Post
                                His FG against Oakland in the snow was impressive though.
                                Yeah, it was. Would've never happened if Brady's fumble would've been called correctly, though.

                                It kind of reminds me of Denver's game in the playoffs last year against Baltimore. Except Manning's "tuck" was called a fumble. Notice now that the NFL got rid of that ridiculous rule all together.

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