Why is the talk about who is better more dependent on Super Bowls than MVPs?

[Hanzo the Razor]

To me, this speaks volumes. I could never imagine Brady praying and begging God on the sideline to let him win.

The Colts took a 38-34 lead late in the fourth quarter of the AFC Championship Game. With one minute remaining on the clock and the ball in the hands of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, Manning looked for assistance from above. "I've never done this before in my life. I've never prayed during a game. I'm watching the scoreboard and my hands come together. I'm in prayer position. I just said,˜Dear Lord, one time can you just not let Tom make this comeback? Allow us to win this game and get to the Super Bowl. I probably added in there that Tom already has three Super Bowl rings and he doesn't really need another at this point. I tried to make it a fair prayer."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ednesday-night

Obviously Manning and Brady are never on the field at the same time and thus don't play against one another. But to deny that Brady doesn't get into Peyton's head is silly. Peyton dies a little inside every time Tom beats him.

What else could Manning do but pray? Colts take the lead, there's only one minute left on the clock -- if Brady scores, there's no time left for Peyton to launch his own comeback. It's all up to his defense at that point.

Also, you shouldn't even bring up that game if you're arguing for Tom Brady -- didn't he throw a game-killing interception during that one-minute drive? The CB basically said, "Brady always looks off coverage one way and then throws the other way -- it works, but it doesn't give him a chance to read the side he's actually throwing the ball to. I hung back a little, then jumped the route."

Odd for Mr. Clutch... but then, he hasn't won a Super Bowl in a decade, so I guess that name no longer applies.

[RandomVariable]

By your way of thinking, whether he prayed or not shouldn't matter. Like you, I don't think praying had any effect. Considering this, if you think about it, it's not much different than a superstition, in that respect. But you wouldn't be criticizing a player for biting their lip, standing on one foot, or some other superstitious act.

To me it was more than just the praying for the win. He was outlining the reasons that made Brady a clutch performer in the playoffs. And he was asking for external help.

[chad72]

To me it was more than just the praying for the win. He was outlining the reasons that made Brady a clutch performer in the playoffs. And he was asking for external help.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[RandomVariable]

What else could Manning do but pray? Colts take the lead, there's only one minute left on the clock -- if Brady scores, there's no time left for Peyton to launch his own comeback. It's all up to his defense at that point.

Also, you shouldn't even bring up that game if you're arguing for Tom Brady -- didn't he throw a game-killing interception during that one-minute drive? The CB basically said, "Brady always looks off coverage one way and then throws the other way -- it works, but it doesn't give him a chance to read the side he's actually throwing the ball to. I hung back a little, then jumped the route."

Odd for Mr. Clutch... but then, he hasn't won a Super Bowl in a decade, so I guess that name no longer applies.

I bet no one here can name our starting receivers for that game without looking them up.

Even so, even the best lose from time to time.

[Hanzo the Razor]

The award is for Most Valuable Player -- most valuable player to his team, as in, "If this player wasn't on this team, how would they do?"

We saw that with Brady and the Pats -- the very mediocre Matt Cassel went 11-5 with them that year. And how did the Colts do without Manning? Oh yeah, 2-14.

I doubt it'll ever happen, but I'd be curious to to see if Brady could do what Manning and Warner have done -- come to a different team, with a totally different coaching staff, and make them a Super Bowl contender.

[Hanzo the Razor]

I bet no one here can name our starting receivers for that game without looking them up.

Even so, even the best lose from time to time.

The receivers have nothing to do with Brady throwing a game-killing INT.

[Hanzo the Razor]

To me it was more than just the praying for the win. He was outlining the reasons that made Brady a clutch performer in the playoffs. And he was asking for external help.

Again, because he didn't have time to get the ball back if Brady scores. Unless Manning suddenly decides to play middle linebacker, he just has to sit on the sideline and watch the rest of the game play out.

[ERoyal248]

I bet no one here can name our starting receivers for that game without looking them up.

Even so, even the best lose from time to time.

Caldwell, Branch, Gaffney?

[Broncos724]

There is a large element of luck in winning the super bowl, since it can "click" for any QB over the span of 3-4 games. See: Eli Manning, Joe Flacco. In this season, Andy Dalton had an amazing 4 game stretch in the middle of the year, and has been average at best for the rest of it. And as the QB, you're still dependent on the rest of your team performing well. Brady won 3 rings so quickly that people wanted to believe that he had something that made him always win in the playoffs...in reality it was a combination of him being one of the all time greats, Bill Belichick being one of the all time greats, and insane luck in winning a lot of close games. But as his luck has normalized over a larger playoff sample size, we're seeing a more realistic Tom Brady who can't win every playoff game, who is still dependent upon his teammates, and who has very similar postseason stats to Peyton Manning.

As for the MVPs, I think that award is seriously flawed. It's basically an award that goes to the QB or RB with the best/most impressive stats on a playoff team. So Brady and Manning, being 2 of the best all time QBs, are in contention to win it every year along with a handful of guys.

So I wouldn't say one is necessarily more important than the other in judging how good a QB is. I think they are both important to look at, along with a myriad of other stats, and of course actually watching the player. As far as Brady vs Manning, they both have MVPs and Super Bowls (and they've both lost Super Bowls) so I think it's trivial to say the number of those gives one guy an advantage over another. For me, in just watching them play, I come away more impressed with Manning, they way he just knows the game better than anyone else I've seen play QB. And I think some of the advanced stats favor Manning as well (adjusted net yds/pass attempt might be the single best stat to judge a QB).

Ultimately though, you really can't compare the 2 until their careers are both complete.

[Broncos724]

To me it was more than just the praying for the win. He was outlining the reasons that made Brady a clutch performer in the playoffs. And he was asking for external help.

If Brady is so "clutch", why does he lose a playoff game every single year?

[hockey878]

all you need to know about how much TEAM effort goes into winning a superbowl is this, peyton had one of his worst playoffs the year they won the SB. but the rest of the team picked up the slack.

think about that. peyton's worst playoffs was when he won the SB. That right there is enough evidence to show that it takes a TEAM to win a SB. He's had countless great performances neutralized by awful special teams/defense

[Doogansquest]

If Brady is so "clutch", why does he lose a playoff game every single year?

What's funny is, the answer will likely involve something about the team (if Pats fans answer at all).

Great post before, by the way.

[RandomVariable]

If Brady is so "clutch", why does he lose a playoff game every single year?

Clutch doesn't imply perfection. Even Montana lost playoff games.

[Doogansquest]

To me it was more than just the praying for the win. He was outlining the reasons that made Brady a clutch performer in the playoffs. And he was asking for external help.

I bet no one here can name our starting receivers for that game without looking them up.

Even so, even the best lose from time to time.

Clutch doesn't imply perfection. Even Montana lost playoff games.

And how many of the Patriots wins were because Brady was "clutch" (an imaginary entity in it's own right that can't just be drawn upon like an ATM, but people have faith it's there based on their own perception of a player's ability)? What if Vinatieri misses those kicks? What if the defense doesn't get 17 points against the Rams? What if Bledsoe doesn't beat the Steelers, or the Tuck is ruled correctly against the Raiders? What if the defense doesn't force 4 turnovers against the Eagles?

The issue is, Tom was the beneficiary of a lot of "oops" wins early in his playoff career, that people have failed to see how he's really been the last decade: good, but not spectacular, or even "clutch." Statistically speaking Aaron Rodgers has probably been the best playoff QB in recent years, but he just can't any help.

By the way, notable names doesn't equal "help." It all has to come together: coaching, right matchups, etc.

[Frozen.taco]

Does every thread turn into a Brady thread? I swear certain posters just get a slight whiff of something to bring Brady up they are there, probably have accounts on every teams message boards to spread the word