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  • #46
    The first Bronco team I watched was coached by Mac Speedie. My favorite DC for the Broncos was Joe Collier who was an innovator who knew football history. Greg Robinson was Bronco DC for Super Bowl XXXII and XXXIII, but Mike Shanahan fired him. Between Super Bowl XXXIII and Elway taking over, there didn't seem to be a lot of good coaching.

    Fox took Carolina to Super Bowl XXXVIII with Jake Delhomme as his QB. They lost by a FG to the Patriots. To say that Fox and JDR would be .500 or less without Manning begs the question of who the QB would be in that scenario. Elway would get them one.

    When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about defensive alignments. JDR runs a multiple defense. I've seen six different defensive fronts. Don't know if anyone wants to discuss that stuff or not.

    Having done both, I'd say preparing D is more difficult than O. There is much more detailed scouting and preparing cards for scout team. Each play classified by D & D, FP and hash must be entered. Pro games are way harder because offenses can change their style from week to week. When pro offenses switch personnel, the box has to report it so D can respond with the package they have scouted and for which they have game planned. It's a good thing there is a forty second play clock.

    I think JDR has some pretty good fronts and calls D a lot of different ways from each. In spite of losing Miller, they should be fine at Oakland. If Bailey, Wolfe and Moore can be back in January, they should be OK. There have been a lot of injuries with which to deal, and in spite of them the Broncos are 12-3, Division Champs and first round bye. This accomplishment has been a result of the combined efforts of front office, coaching staff and players.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • #47
      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
      The first Bronco team I watched was coached by Mac Speedie. My favorite DC for the Broncos was Joe Collier who was an innovator who knew football history. Greg Robinson was Bronco DC for Super Bowl XXXII and XXXIII, but Mike Shanahan fired him. Between Super Bowl XXXIII and Elway taking over, there didn't seem to be a lot of good coaching.

      Fox took Carolina to Super Bowl XXXVIII with Jake Delhomme as his QB. They lost by a FG to the Patriots. To say that Fox and JDR would be .500 or less without Manning begs the question of who the QB would be in that scenario. Elway would get them one.

      When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about defensive alignments. JDR runs a multiple defense. I've seen six different defensive fronts. Don't know if anyone wants to discuss that stuff or not.

      Having done both, I'd say preparing D is more difficult than O. There is much more detailed scouting and preparing cards for scout team. Each play classified by D & D, FP and hash must be entered. Pro games are way harder because offenses can change their style from week to week. When pro offenses switch personnel, the box has to report it so D can respond with the package they have scouted and for which they have game planned. It's a good thing there is a forty second play clock.

      I think JDR has some pretty good fronts and calls D a lot of different ways from each. In spite of losing Miller, they should be fine at Oakland. If Bailey, Wolfe and Moore can be back in January, they should be OK. There have been a lot of injuries with which to deal, and in spite of them the Broncos are 12-3, Division Champs and first round bye. This accomplishment has been a result of the combined efforts of front office, coaching staff and players.
      Good post, Sam.

      The coach for my first game was Lou Saban. I agree that Joe Collier was our best DC. I would have to say Mike Shanahan was our best HC because if the two Super Bowl victories.

      Something that many casual fans miss is all of the option routes NFL teams have. No matter how the front or secondary line up, the offense will have plays designed to get players open. I believe that is why scoring and passing are so prevalent. It is also why we are lucky to have an intelligent QB running our team. We may have the best QB ever to operate out of an option route based offense.
      sigpic

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      • #48
        Originally posted by qbronco View Post
        Good post, Sam.

        The coach for my first game was Lou Saban. I agree that Joe Collier was our best DC. I would have to say Mike Shanahan was our best HC because if the two Super Bowl victories.

        Something that many casual fans miss is all of the option routes NFL teams have. No matter how the front or secondary line up, the offense will have plays designed to get players open. I believe that is why scoring and passing are so prevalent. It is also why we are lucky to have an intelligent QB running our team. We may have the best QB ever to operate out of an option route based offense.
        1967? My Dad took me to the exhibition game at DU's Hilltop Stadium. Broncos beat the Detroit Lions. It was the first time an AFL team defeated and NFL team. I miss the AFL.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • #49
          I would start Irving at middle and put wood back outside... man I was mad we let dj Williams go and I understood the move but man I miss having him out there. But yeah Irving in the middle would be the best fit I think.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by velly4 View Post
            I would start Irving at middle and put wood back outside... man I was mad we let dj Williams go and I understood the move but man I miss having him out there. But yeah Irving in the middle would be the best fit I think.
            ...and put Trevathan where?
            sigpic

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            • #51
              Originally posted by crash123go View Post
              It's not a question of talent at all at any position. We are one of the most talente teams in the league defensively. Our problem is communication and mental mistakes. 90% of the plays we give up are because of a mental mistake on the field, when we play mistake free we see one of the best defenses in the league
              So mental makeup is not a part of talent? All NFL players are gifted athletes. It's the athlete plus the mental aspect that is true talent and you just proved my point, our LBs and a few other positions just aren't the whole package.
              Anybody know how to get out of Plan A? - Elway

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              • #52
                Originally posted by velly4 View Post
                I would start Irving at middle and put wood back outside... man I was mad we let dj Williams go and I understood the move but man I miss having him out there. But yeah Irving in the middle would be the best fit I think.
                It was said during preseason I believe that Irving does not understand the defense as much as Trevathan and WW hence why is is on the bench a lot when Von is healthy. Dude can hit though.

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                • #53
                  Phillips needs to be standing up rushing the passer, thats what he's good at and what he did in San Diego for over a decade. If Wolfe comes back healthy Ayers should be starting opposite him, while Phillips plays OLB. I'm just sick of seeing Bolden and Paris Lenon on the field, they would not play for any other NFL team and thats a fact!

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                  • #54
                    I think you keep Phillips where he is. He is playing about the same as Elvis did last year so just keep it that way and worry about possibly upgrading after the season. Finding a pass rush from the other side is the issue! Ayers is good in flashes but can't be relied upon. Wolfe is stout against the run but hasn't done much in the form of pass rush.

                    The run defense was pretty solid in the first 6 weeks of the season so the Broncos best bet is going to be to stop the run on early downs and make teams predictable.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
                      Phillips needs to be standing up rushing the passer, thats what he's good at and what he did in San Diego for over a decade. If Wolfe comes back healthy Ayers should be starting opposite him, while Phillips plays OLB. I'm just sick of seeing Bolden and Paris Lenon on the field, they would not play for any other NFL team and thats a fact!
                      Seems to me that your real issue is the with the personnel and the make up of the package....not the alignment.

                      You have SEEN Woodyard getting smashed by kick out blocks, right? Well I have, and so have the coaches. It's not all his fault...he's an undersized MLB playing out of position. No one here is going to make an argument for Paris Lenon as a great backer, but he's a more conventional base package MLB. I know everyone loves Woodyard for his attitude and leadership, but the guy has been very unimpressive for the last half of the season.

                      As for Phillips....I don't really see your evidence supporting why he is better standing up than he is as a down lineman....other than the fact that he played that way in San Diego. He's having a great year statistically in terms of sacks, although that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. Even if that were true, I don't see how that is an argument for him to go to an OLB position for a couple reasons:

                      - A 4-3 OLB is much different than a 3-4 OLB. Ever seen Phillips covering TEs or receivers out of the backfield? Neither have I. Do you think Phillips at this stage in his career can go sideline to sideline against stretch run plays? Neither do I.

                      - There is nothing that precludes JDR from standing him up on passing downs out of his DE position if that's how he is most effective.

                      Wolfe and Ayers are utilized quite a bit (at least when Wolfe was healthy), and Adams still rotated in regularly when Moore was healthy, so unless you're suggesting that they need to play Moore and Wolfe before they are cleared by the medical staff, I don't really see your point there. When we are in dime, we need to play extra DBs. Due to injury, substitutions to keep guys fresh, equipment issues, trying different personnel, etc....you're going to see quite a few DBs playing at any given time. Because Tony Carter is in the dog house (I'm not sure why, but that's another issue), and Champ and Webster out until recently....you're going to see some combination of DRC, Harris Jr, Jammer, Adams, Ienacho, Boldin. That's just how it goes. Those are the DBs on the roster.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by MegaOrange View Post
                        So mental makeup is not a part of talent? All NFL players are gifted athletes. It's the athlete plus the mental aspect that is true talent and you just proved my point, our LBs and a few other positions just aren't the whole package.
                        Yes mental understanding is part of talent but it's the easiest part of a players talent to fix. You watch our games and the defense has the talent to be make every play but a DB will fall down in coverage, a linebacker won't drift far enough in their zone or a OLB won't crash down far enough on their contain responsibilities.

                        Mental mistakes is our problem, not talent which is good because mental errors can be fixed easier.
                        A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Jason Sitoke View Post
                          Seems to me that your real issue is the with the personnel and the make up of the package....not the alignment.

                          You have SEEN Woodyard getting smashed by kick out blocks, right? Well I have, and so have the coaches. It's not all his fault...he's an undersized MLB playing out of position. No one here is going to make an argument for Paris Lenon as a great backer, but he's a more conventional base package MLB. I know everyone loves Woodyard for his attitude and leadership, but the guy has been very unimpressive for the last half of the season.

                          As for Phillips....I don't really see your evidence supporting why he is better standing up than he is as a down lineman....other than the fact that he played that way in San Diego. He's having a great year statistically in terms of sacks, although that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. Even if that were true, I don't see how that is an argument for him to go to an OLB position for a couple reasons:

                          - A 4-3 OLB is much different than a 3-4 OLB. Ever seen Phillips covering TEs or receivers out of the backfield? Neither have I. Do you think Phillips at this stage in his career can go sideline to sideline against stretch run plays? Neither do I.

                          - There is nothing that precludes JDR from standing him up on passing downs out of his DE position if that's how he is most effective.

                          Wolfe and Ayers are utilized quite a bit (at least when Wolfe was healthy), and Adams still rotated in regularly when Moore was healthy, so unless you're suggesting that they need to play Moore and Wolfe before they are cleared by the medical staff, I don't really see your point there. When we are in dime, we need to play extra DBs. Due to injury, substitutions to keep guys fresh, equipment issues, trying different personnel, etc....you're going to see quite a few DBs playing at any given time. Because Tony Carter is in the dog house (I'm not sure why, but that's another issue), and Champ and Webster out until recently....you're going to see some combination of DRC, Harris Jr, Jammer, Adams, Ienacho, Boldin. That's just how it goes. Those are the DBs on the roster.
                          Great post, especially on the personnel aspect.

                          Jackson and Williams have become part of the pass rush equation, too. Williams needs to step up his run D in the playoffs. Bailey's return will help the Secondary.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                          • #58
                            RANDOM DEFENSIVE STATS...

                            Denver's defense ranks 7th in opposing completion percentage.
                            Denver's defense ranks 14th in opposing passer rating.
                            Denver's defense ranks 28th in opposing yards, and yards per game.

                            The first two stats suggest that the last one shouldn't happen, but teams are throwing a LOT against the Broncos in an effort to keep pace with their offense. In fact, only 4 defenses have seen more passes thrown against them than has Denver.

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