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  • #76
    Originally posted by Idiot_Kicker View Post
    It's common knowledge this offense is 85% the same as what Peyton ran in Indy. There is some added Adam Gase stuff brought from the Mike Martz school of passing, but the majority is built around what Peyton does, which is to make sight adjustments pre-snap.

    Bill Belichick said this directly to Phil Simms. Same offense as Indy.

    Look, I understand it, Peyton is probably the most unique QB in NFL history, but what I am saying is there is a basic fundamental flaw in the offense, and that is it makes you too finesse.
    Lots of interesting points on both sides, but with respect to hanging everything on Manning's shoulders, he isn't the coach.

    Last year's loss to the Ravens is proof enough that when push comes to shove, Peyton will yield to the coach's call. And last year we all blamed Fox for the loss for all the run-run-run-punt series at the end.

    Any coach will look at the strength of his players to find a way to best utilize them. The Broncos offense might be as much as 85% as Indy's was when Manning played with them, but that says more about who Peyton is as a player and Fox's decision to stick with his abilities, right or wrong.

    Peyton has a lot of liberty with the offense because, based on his ability, he is allowed that by the coaching staff. When that fails you cannot totally blame him for the failure - he deserves his share - but where strategy is more a problem than performance, the coaches deserve more of the blame for lack of preparation.

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    • #77
      ......

      [IMG][/IMG]
      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."sigpic

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Taos_Broncomaniac View Post
        currently unemployed gentleman by the name of Bill Polian.
        Actually, Mr. Polian is employed and can be seen on ESPN's NFL Insiders.
        HE>i

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        • #79
          As long as Peyton is healthy and wants to run this team, he's the QB. Winning or losing the SB may affect his decision. I believe a victory would influence him to retire, whereas a loss may not. Then again, no matter the team's outcome this season, he may just feel like it's time.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Broncoboy6 View Post
            Actually, Mr. Polian is employed and can be seen on ESPN's NFL Insiders.
            I stand corrected, Mr Polian is now "working" for a fraction of his former salary at one of the many landing spots for displaced executives, players and coaches. Can you imagine having to watch Matt Millen "analyze" if you're a Lions fan??? :doh::hammer::brick:
            [sigpic

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Taos_Broncomaniac View Post
              Elway wasn't running the Colts organization, a currently unemployed gentleman by the name of Bill Polian made the mistake of putting all his eggs in Peyton's basket. I don't think Elway is going away anytime soon.

              Some may read into my earlier post's and think I' m high on Fox...I am not. He reminds me of a dim light bulb, basically better than no light at all but leaves a lot to be desired (or illuminated) The reason I don't want to re-invent the wheel at the moment is that we are not a bad team. The Superbowl was an anomaly. If we can get into the post season with the majority of our starters upright, we got this.

              Gettin' excited for the draft, Go Johnnie Go Go Go!
              While Elway may or may not place greater emphasis on upgrading the roster than Polian did in Indianapolis, what happens on the field won't change much. They might run the ball better than they did last season, but that doesn't mean the pass/run ratio will change a whole lot.

              The offense was every bit the problem in the Super Bowl as the defense was, if not more. Manning doesn't consistently play big in big games. That's the biggest obstacle the Broncos will have to overcome.

              Aside from the playoff loss to the Ravens, Fox has by no means been the problem and Manning was a bigger problem in that game.
              My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
              You Mad Bro?
              Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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              • #82
                Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                While Elway may or may not place greater emphasis on upgrading the roster than Polian did in Indianapolis, what happens on the field won't change much. They might run the ball better than they did last season, but that doesn't mean the pass/run ratio will change a whole lot.

                The offense was every bit the problem in the Super Bowl as the defense was, if not more. Manning doesn't consistently play big in big games. That's the biggest obstacle the Broncos will have to overcome.

                Aside from the playoff loss to the Ravens, Fox has by no means been the problem and Manning was a bigger problem in that game.
                IMO the Offense was the biggest part of losing that game and add in the crappy ST play and the defense is way down the list of culprits..
                as for Manning playing poorly in the game he had DL players draped all over him or at his feet all game except for a couple of series. one of which DT fumbled the ball away when we were getting the momentum back.

                his pick six was because the DL hit his arm while he was throwing.

                I have never seen a better display of defense mostly their DL 4 on our 5-6 OL players that could not be contain them for the most part of the game.

                If our OL could have given Manning time to throw as it did on IIRC two series perhaps the game would have been much closer.

                when wilson had great field position for all but one of his drives the defense hardly has a chance to stop the guy.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                  While Elway may or may not place greater emphasis on upgrading the roster than Polian did in Indianapolis, what happens on the field won't change much. They might run the ball better than they did last season, but that doesn't mean the pass/run ratio will change a whole lot.

                  The offense was every bit the problem in the Super Bowl as the defense was, if not more. Manning doesn't consistently play big in big games. That's the biggest obstacle the Broncos will have to overcome.

                  Aside from the playoff loss to the Ravens, Fox has by no means been the problem and Manning was a bigger problem in that game.
                  Your post loses all credibility when you discount Manning's performance in the playoff loss to the Ravens. I'm not sure what more you expected of him!

                  That you don't believe this team can do enough to hoist a Lombardi next year is unfortunate. I tend to be optimistic, why anyone would chose to be otherwise is a mystery to me. The conviction that Peyton will choke in the big one is an early pessimistic death to a season that has not even begun. I predict a winning season, this means that as a fanbase we will be victorious (happy) more than we will be disappointed (sad)

                  That is all I ask of my team
                  [sigpic

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                  • #84
                    Why do people think its easy to win the Super Bowl, if it was so easy, you/anyone could win one too. Things happen, being in the conversation to me is better than knowing your team might be lucky to sniff the playoffs

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                    • #85
                      All I know is Adam Gase is a descendant from the Mike Martz school of offense, who's teams failed because they never committed enough to the run, even with Marshall Faulk...his record setting Rams lost to the Patriots and managed to score just 17 points in the process. Even the SB the Rams managed to win with their record setting offense, barely got by Tampa Bay in the NFC Championship game 11-6, and beat Tennessee in the SB 23-16. Not exactly setting the scoring record in the process.

                      Tom Brady's record setting Patriots offense lost two SB's to the Giants when they managed to score just 14 and 17 points respectively, and now we had the Bronco debacle, and Peyton's loss with the Colts to the Saints before that

                      IIRC the three Patriots teams that won the Super Bowl were a "finesse" spread offense with a pretty average running attack and a dominant defense. And that spread offense was good but not great.

                      We have a dominant passing attack, the pieces for a good running game, and the pieces for a very strong defense. Seems like we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic if the team stays healthy. Not really understanding the doom and gloom.
                      Last edited by Jonny_Quest; 05-06-2014, 05:44 AM.

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                      • #86
                        Peyton should start taking sacks like Brady and Eli and not think he has to do it all himself first. I do think he presses even when he knows his odds on a play are 50-50. Make the other team go the entire length of the field, that is half the battle in the playoffs, a battle that Brady has mastered and even Eli has mastered. Take the sacks without forcing much and take the temporary loss of yardage without flipping field position with a turnover. Heck, when the Giants trot out their NASCAR package in game 2, they respond by running with 2 TEs and maul the Giants with Wes just playing a cameo role. The Seahawks do the same, they keep Wes in with disastrous results.

                        I could notice it, and I wish Fox told Peyton and Gase after a few 3 and outs to do something different. That is after all Fox's strength, right, the running game focus. It took a gut wrenching Ravens playoff loss for Fox to realize he can ice a game in his QB's hands. He did so the next year in the playoffs when the O iced it in both the Chargers and Patriots game. Heck, Belichick went for a 4th & 2 and long ago realized that his HOF QB could ice games for him even if that did not work at that time. I am just not convinced Fox and Peyton combo will eventually get it done.

                        It will take some fantastic defensive performances by the Broncos to make up for Peyton's turnovers in the playoffs like the Colts did in 2006 and a Fox oriented running game dominance when teams play 2 safeties behind most of the time. The addition of Emmanuel Sanders should help because the Seahawks never had to put more than 1 safety outside the box because they knew their safety could easily recover against Decker's speed and he wasn't physical enough to beat press coverage. This might actually move the safeties back with Sanders' speed out there thus allowing the run to flourish indirectly.
                        Last edited by chad72; 05-06-2014, 06:31 AM.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by chad72 View Post
                          Peyton should start taking sacks like Brady and Eli and not think he has to do it all himself first. I do think he presses even when he knows his odds on a play are 50-50. Make the other team go the entire length of the field, that is half the battle in the playoffs, a battle that Brady has mastered and even Eli has mastered. Take the sacks without forcing much and take the temporary loss of yardage without flipping field position with a turnover. Heck, when the Giants trot out their NASCAR package in game 2, they respond by running with 2 TEs and maul the Giants with Wes just playing a cameo role. The Seahawks do the same, they keep Wes in with disastrous results.
                          Couldn't agree more with your statement that Peyton needs to learn to take sacks, it seems like he tends to force the issue/make bad decisions instead of taking the sack and playing the field position game.

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                          • #88
                            I hope he can play out his contract here!
                            3 more years!

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