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DRC vs. Talib

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    I never herd there being any emotion involved at all by Elway.

    He saw the CBs going off the market fast....DRC did not sign the offer...Elway switched gears to the other CB available at the time (Reevis had not been released yet so we could not talk with him at that point). (I read Elway turned to Talib when DRC would not sign, everything else is my opinion)

    Talib even said he was surprised to hear from us. (can not remember if I read this or if it was one of Talibs videos on Denverbroncos.com)

    Like I said earlier I like this. I do not think it is emotion based...I think Elway and his team had a few CBs they wanted...they started to see people getting signed and when the pickins got slim and DRC did not take the offer Elway went to Talib.

    This will show future free agents that the offer may not be there even the same day if they do not take it. I like it. They better think hard before shopping around because that may be the best offer they get and it may not be there in a few hours.

    Frankly I think Elway did the right thing...why focus on one guy while everyone else gets signed taking the chance we are left with nothing?
    You're saying basically the same thing I said. I'm not saying we signed Talib out of spite. I'd rather have Talib. You're saying people better think hard before saying they're gonna shop around. That's the point I was making and what the report I read mentioned. I'm not saying I heard Elway threw a chair through a window. I read Elway was not happy a guy we offered a very good contract to bring back said no thank you, I'll weigh my options. I never heard of any additional offers we made. If we came up with a slightly better deal for Talib, I'd assume we'd offer it to DRC first if we really wanted to keep him.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
      Will we get a compensatory pick for DRC next year? If so, this could make letting him go and signing Talib a good idea, even if they are of equal ability.
      I think we might actually, we'll be in line for some comp-picks next year.

      Comment


      • #33
        They offered DRC a similar deal to Talib with some clauses given his retirement thing.

        He turned it down and they moved to Talib since all the top CB's were getting scooped up.

        DRC is a little bit better as a COVER CB, but tackling he's not as good, or physical as Talib is. Although i dont think his tackling is as bad as some say.

        Talib's health is the main question with him though.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
          They offered DRC a similar deal to Talib with some clauses given his retirement thing.

          He turned it down and they moved to Talib since all the top CB's were getting scooped up.

          DRC is a little bit better as a COVER CB, but tackling he's not as good, or physical as Talib is. Although i dont think his tackling is as bad as some say.

          Talib's health is the main question with him though.
          Solid post.
          I think the retirement comment caught a bunch of folks by surprise.
          I also think they were willing to give him less money up front because of it.

          While the totals were probably close to each other they wanted to make sure he did not flake on them. Take the money and disappear again.

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          • #35
            IMO DRC is a better corner once the play moves deeper down field and his athleticism becomes a factor which is why I like him so much, but the best corners in todays game and most of the greats to ever play the position were the CBs who consistently win/won at the line of scrimmage.

            In todays game, both Revis/Sherman/Peterson/Haden/Talib are the most successful cornerbacks because they can win VS their man before the play even moves down field. Some exceptions can be made for the likes of Ty Law, Champ Bailey and some others (play recognition, awareness) who also excelled in off-man coverages, but even CBs of past generations like Deion Sanders, Rod Woodson, Aeneas Williams, Lester Hayes, Mel Blount etc. were all elite CBs in almost every era because they won at the LOS, and this holds true today (example: Revis)

            So I think moving forward Talib will be the better of the two pending he is on the field.

            Comment


            • #36
              cont'd: specifically in the game @ New England, I recall DT struggling to break away from Talib downfield on atleast 4 occasions where the ball was intended for him, and anyone who recalls watching Asomugha when in Oakland play against Denver he was always consistently smothering our receivers like this which is what made him so effective for those years.

              If Talib can be the effective like this for Denver combined with Harris' also aggressive play near the LOS, that sets up
              a Miller/Ware combo that can get to the QB with the WRs being tied up.

              Comment


              • #37
                Talib is better hands down, thats why we jumped on Talib in a hurry.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Solid post.
                  I think the retirement comment caught a bunch of folks by surprise.
                  I also think they were willing to give him less money up front because of it.

                  While the totals were probably close to each other they wanted to make sure he did not flake on them. Take the money and disappear again.
                  First I don't think the guaranteed money they offered DRC was as much as they offered Talib. The story I remember was that DRC rejected the offer and they decided that rather than offering more guaranteed money, like he was requesting, they might as well move up and get Talib whom they regarded as a better player (better run defender).

                  Talib's contract:
                  USA Today reports Aqib Talib's "six-year, $57 million contract" could end up as a one-year, $12 million deal.
                  Only $11.5 million of the deal is truly guaranteed. Another $500,000 is available for 2014 through per-game roster bonuses. Talib's 2015 and 2016 salaries are guaranteed for "injury only," meaning that, barring a career-ending injury, the Broncos could theoretically move on next offseason. Doing so would incur a $4 million cap hit. It's unlikely to happen, but as is often the case, deals are trumped up in the early days of free agency.
                  Actually, unless he sucks they're not going to swallow a $4 million cap hit to get rid of him! So, realistically he's going to be here for 2014 and 2015 minimum which means he's almost certainly getting the $26 Million guaranteed money he was originally reported signing for.

                  Meanwhile DRC signed with the Giants for 5 years, and $39 million. No report on the guaranteed money, but it was obviously less than Talib was given. So, Elway looked at Talib as an upgrade. He was always going to command $7-9 million a year, and Denver gave him more like $12 million.
                  sigpic

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                  • #39
                    Honestly, Talib's impact goes beyond the defense. DT struggled vs Talib more than any other corner I remember. They did replace him with a very good Revis, but time will tell whether Revis gives DT as much of a headache as Talib.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      They offered DRC, 6 years, 54 million.

                      http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...d-facts/26687/

                      I have confirmed a Pro Football Talk report that before the Broncos signed Aqib Talib to a six-year, $57 million contract, they offered their own Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie a six-year $54 million deal.

                      And it’s true, Rodgers-Cromartie turned it down. But before slamming Rodgers-Cromartie or his agent Eugene Parker, the six-year, $54 million proposal was not what it seemed. No NFL contract is what it seems.

                      First, Parker has long been considered one of the NFL’s premier agents. He has represented Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson. He currently represents Larry Fitzgerald and Jairus Byrd. Parker just got a six-year, $54 million deal done for Byrd with New Orleans. Parker knows six year, $54 million contracts.

                      Byrd’s six-year, $54 million deal was structured in such a way that he is all but guaranteed $27.9 million through three years. Rodgers-Cromartie’s six-year, $54 million proposal from the Broncos was essentially a one year, $10 million guarantee.

                      The Broncos’ contracts are very well structured. The team is more than fair, even generous, to the player in year one, but then the Broncos protect the team interests after that. This is smart, clean business by general manager John Elway and Broncos’ contract guru Mike Sullivan, the unsung star of the team’s recent free-agent haul of defensive standouts.

                      What we have come to know about Elway is he won’t hesitate to move on if he doesn’t feel negotiations are going well. This is a guy who sharpened his transaction acumen in the car business. Jared Allen found this out as the Broncos wound up signing DeMarcus Ware instead.

                      It also should be noted that included in the $10 million, first-year money to Rodgers-Cromartie was a $5 million signing bonus that would have carried future salary cap ramifications and made it extremely difficult for the Broncos to release the cornerback after the first year.

                      So Rodgers-Cromartie would have made $16 million after two years. And then it would have been $24 million over three years.

                      That’s the deal Rodgers-Cromartie turned down. The other $30 million over the final three years was essentially fluff.

                      Talib and strong safety T.J. Ward didn’t have a problem with the Broncos’ structure. Talib’s six-year, $57 million contract is really one year and $12 million, two years and $18 million and three years and $27 million. His final three years and $30 million are fluff.

                      At 5 p.m. Tuesday, Talib had never heard from the Broncos. By 9:15 p.m. Tuesday, they had the deal done.

                      Some people — most notably the coaches and personnel executives inside Dove Valley’s headquarters — would say Talib is a better player than Rodgers-Cromartie and is worth $2 million more in year one of the contract. The same people would also say if Rodgers-Cromartie is worth an average of $8 million per year after three seasons, then Talib is worth a $9 million average.

                      Rodgers-Cromartie, a uniquely gifted, long, tall cover corner, and his agent would beg to differ.

                      We’ll see what happens to Rodgers-Cromartie, but my guess is most teams have already spent the bulk of their budget. When it’s over, Rodgers-Cromartie may continue to receive criticism for not taking the Broncos’ offer.

                      And that’s fair. But it’s also fair to say he didn’t really turn down six years and $54 million. He rejected one year for $10 million, or two years for $16 million or three years for $24 million.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
                        They offered DRC, 6 years, 54 million.

                        http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...d-facts/26687/

                        I have confirmed a Pro Football Talk report that before the Broncos signed Aqib Talib to a six-year, $57 million contract, they offered their own Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie a six-year $54 million deal.

                        And it’s true, Rodgers-Cromartie turned it down. But before slamming Rodgers-Cromartie or his agent Eugene Parker, the six-year, $54 million proposal was not what it seemed. No NFL contract is what it seems.

                        First, Parker has long been considered one of the NFL’s premier agents. He has represented Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson. He currently represents Larry Fitzgerald and Jairus Byrd. Parker just got a six-year, $54 million deal done for Byrd with New Orleans. Parker knows six year, $54 million contracts.

                        Byrd’s six-year, $54 million deal was structured in such a way that he is all but guaranteed $27.9 million through three years. Rodgers-Cromartie’s six-year, $54 million proposal from the Broncos was essentially a one year, $10 million guarantee.

                        The Broncos’ contracts are very well structured. The team is more than fair, even generous, to the player in year one, but then the Broncos protect the team interests after that. This is smart, clean business by general manager John Elway and Broncos’ contract guru Mike Sullivan, the unsung star of the team’s recent free-agent haul of defensive standouts.

                        What we have come to know about Elway is he won’t hesitate to move on if he doesn’t feel negotiations are going well. This is a guy who sharpened his transaction acumen in the car business. Jared Allen found this out as the Broncos wound up signing DeMarcus Ware instead.

                        It also should be noted that included in the $10 million, first-year money to Rodgers-Cromartie was a $5 million signing bonus that would have carried future salary cap ramifications and made it extremely difficult for the Broncos to release the cornerback after the first year.

                        So Rodgers-Cromartie would have made $16 million after two years. And then it would have been $24 million over three years.

                        That’s the deal Rodgers-Cromartie turned down. The other $30 million over the final three years was essentially fluff.

                        Talib and strong safety T.J. Ward didn’t have a problem with the Broncos’ structure. Talib’s six-year, $57 million contract is really one year and $12 million, two years and $18 million and three years and $27 million. His final three years and $30 million are fluff.

                        At 5 p.m. Tuesday, Talib had never heard from the Broncos. By 9:15 p.m. Tuesday, they had the deal done.

                        Some people — most notably the coaches and personnel executives inside Dove Valley’s headquarters — would say Talib is a better player than Rodgers-Cromartie and is worth $2 million more in year one of the contract. The same people would also say if Rodgers-Cromartie is worth an average of $8 million per year after three seasons, then Talib is worth a $9 million average.

                        Rodgers-Cromartie, a uniquely gifted, long, tall cover corner, and his agent would beg to differ.

                        We’ll see what happens to Rodgers-Cromartie, but my guess is most teams have already spent the bulk of their budget. When it’s over, Rodgers-Cromartie may continue to receive criticism for not taking the Broncos’ offer.

                        And that’s fair. But it’s also fair to say he didn’t really turn down six years and $54 million. He rejected one year for $10 million, or two years for $16 million or three years for $24 million.
                        solid post overall.. BUT Vasquez
                        signed a try me contract first year base salary of 2 mil with a cap value 3.25

                        his next year went to 7.2 after roster bonus of 3 mil. (meaning they wanted to see if he could hack it before giving it to him)
                        the next few years cap values are 6.25 and 7.25

                        but you are correct someone is paying attention to the money spent and when it goes out the door.

                        They want to Work for John becasue they know it is a class team.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          DRC is one of the best man coverage corners in the league. It could be argued that he's the best man coverage corner in the game today. However Talib is also a great man coverage corner and is easily top 5. Where Talib is better than DRC is that he is a much better tackler. He doesn't shy away from contact like DRC does. The other thing that Talib is better at is his zone coverage...much better. DRC looked lost sometimes when asked to play zone coverage. I would much rather have Aqib Talib personally but I'm going to definitely miss seeing DRC and his elite athleticism.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by swess93 View Post
                            DRC is one of the best man coverage corners in the league. When he is ready and mentally prepared to play. .
                            Fixed that for you.

                            DRC was give a one years contract because he had failed to live up to expectations prior to coming to Denver.

                            The question remains once he has money in the bank will he be THAT CB or the one he was before coming to Denver.

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