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Help me understand any Manning contract re-structure

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  • #16
    Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
    Okay yeah I didn't think we could restructer due to having to stretch it on additional years which I don't think he has left, so I figured this would be the only option of rearranging his pay.

    But I didn't even know if that is possible and I didn't know if there would be any dead money in the process because I thought how the contract was structured it would prevent us from incurring any dead money due to a failed physical. I was just wondering if that was possible so thanks for some insight
    if we cut Manning, we will incur 5 Million in dead money.

    if we keep Manning this year and he either retires or gets cut next year, we will incur 2.5 Million of dead money.

    There is no getting around the dead money.

    Think of dead money like a car payment. If you sell your car prematurely, will the bank all the sudden decide you don't owe your monthly payments?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 58 broncomaniac View Post
      No there is no rule saying you cant do this. Once you cut him he becomes a free agent and is able to sign a contract for any amount with any teams including the Broncos. The Broncos would also have a 5 million dead money hit when he is cut.

      This would set a really bad precedent for other players contract and I doubt Manning would do this. This would give other teams leverage in saying well Manning took a paycut why cant you. Manning is a big supporter of NFPLA and doubt he would ever play for a contract worth less than he is worth. His contract is not outrageous by QB standards.
      Thank you! Someone that gets it!

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      • #18
        I think there are is a misconception between a pay cut, and a restructure being the same thing. I'm convinced 9/10 when someone says restructure they mean a paycut. Although, I'm not sure what the deal is with retirement. Does that terminate the contract completely, regardless if all the guaranteed money has been paid out?
        What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
        I don't know and I don't care

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        • #19
          The NFL & NFLPA might night like it, but there are no rules (which I am aware of) preventing DEN from failing Peyton... The re-signing him again.

          1) Based on the evident injuries THE WHOLE NATION saw on display last Dec-Jan, and given the history of neck issues, and taking age into account, DEN would be well within their right to fail Peyton... and, thus, not giving him a clean bill of health.

          2) At this point, Peyton is a free agent and free to do whatever he wants. DEN is also free, I believe, to negotiate with PM and see if a new contract can be worked out.

          So, if there are no restrictions in the rulebook about re-signing a player after not picking up an option... I don't see why this is a problem? This was why they put the escape clauses in the contract to begin with.

          DEN can claim they don't believe PM is healthy enough to risk 19 million... But, at a reduced price, they feel more comfortable.

          Peyton Manning has made millions and will continue to make money. How much would he spend if he could buy a SB? 5 mil? 10 mil? PM has ONE MORE SHOT at winning a SB... I would think he would feel more than happy to go from 19 down to 10... after all, that means keeping JT or letting him walk.

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          • #20
            Great posts John.

            As long as he's healthy, he's worth every buck and more. Fans might not care but the added revenue and brand exposure alone more than makes up for what we're paying him - by a large margin too.

            These are things that factor into Ellis' decision, like it or not.
            Adopted Poster
            AZ Snake Fan

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            • #21
              Originally posted by johntbronco View Post
              if we cut Manning, we will incur 5 Million in dead money.

              if we keep Manning this year and he either retires or gets cut next year, we will incur 2.5 Million of dead money.

              There is no getting around the dead money.

              Think of dead money like a car payment. If you sell your car prematurely, will the bank all the sudden decide you don't owe your monthly payments?

              So, if we cut PM and then re-sign him at 1 year for 10 mill... we would only save 4 mil on the cap... Still, if we re-signed PM at 1 year for 1 mil... tee-hee... We would free up 13 mil.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by BroncosDivision View Post
                Great posts John.

                As long as he's healthy, he's worth every buck and more. Fans might not care but the added revenue and brand exposure alone more than makes up for what we're paying him - by a large margin too.

                These are things that factor into Ellis' decision, like it or not.
                He's earned the $$$. I would think Peyton would want to lessen his cap hit even more than DEN. It only helps increase his chances to win it all in 2015.

                If DEN has any reservations about bringing him back... it might be b/c they believe in Osweiler, they don't want to lose Julius... and might feel Brock + JT + a 5-7 million dollar free agent (OC Hudson) might be better than just bringing back PM for one swan song...

                1) They get to find out what they have in Brock. If he stinks, they know to move on and will be rewarded a high draft pick. If he excels, then they know to give him a second contract.

                2) We have a really tough schedule; we might wonder about PM's ability to stay healthy; so, if all things are equal, why not turn the page and let Kubiak take over things... not wrestle with PM for control.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
                  The NFL & NFLPA might night like it, but there are no rules (which I am aware of) preventing DEN from failing Peyton... The re-signing him again.

                  1) Based on the evident injuries THE WHOLE NATION saw on display last Dec-Jan, and given the history of neck issues, and taking age into account, DEN would be well within their right to fail Peyton... and, thus, not giving him a clean bill of health.

                  2) At this point, Peyton is a free agent and free to do whatever he wants. DEN is also free, I believe, to negotiate with PM and see if a new contract can be worked out.

                  So, if there are no restrictions in the rulebook about re-signing a player after not picking up an option... I don't see why this is a problem? This was why they put the escape clauses in the contract to begin with.

                  DEN can claim they don't believe PM is healthy enough to risk 19 million... But, at a reduced price, they feel more comfortable.

                  Peyton Manning has made millions and will continue to make money. How much would he spend if he could buy a SB? 5 mil? 10 mil? PM has ONE MORE SHOT at winning a SB... I would think he would feel more than happy to go from 19 down to 10... after all, that means keeping JT or letting him walk.
                  Couple of points that come to mind.

                  - What is the actual saving though of your speculated plan. It is not $19M to $10M with a $9M savings. The Broncos would still be on the hook for the $5M dead money by initially cutting him. Only a $4M savings in your scenario.

                  - Also. Not sure the Broncos can "not give him a clean bill of health" so arbitrarily. The doctors doing the examination would make that determination. Not the Broncos management.

                  - I also wonder how this would be looked at from a legality of contract standpoint. I would assume it would be an agreed upon scenario. Elway and Manning (and his agent) would likely be agreeing to void a contract, allow Manning to become a free agent and have an agreed upon salary already worked out before they start the process. Maybe just me but that seems a bit shady. Some type of tampering violation perhaps.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                    I think there are is a misconception between a pay cut, and a restructure being the same thing. I'm convinced 9/10 when someone says restructure they mean a paycut. Although, I'm not sure what the deal is with retirement. Does that terminate the contract completely, regardless if all the guaranteed money has been paid out?
                    You still have to take care of the 5 million dead money if Manning is no longer on the payroll this year. Paycut or retire.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                      Couple of points that come to mind.

                      - What is the actual saving though of your speculated plan. It is not $19M to $10M with a $9M savings. The Broncos would still be on the hook for the $5M dead money by initially cutting him. Only a $4M savings in your scenario.

                      - Also. Not sure the Broncos can "not give him a clean bill of health" so arbitrarily. The doctors doing the examination would make that determination. Not the Broncos management.

                      - I also wonder how this would be looked at from a legality of contract standpoint. I would assume it would be an agreed upon scenario. Elway and Manning (and his agent) would likely be agreeing to void a contract, allow Manning to become a free agent and have an agreed upon salary already worked out before they start the process. Maybe just me but that seems a bit shady. Some type of tampering violation perhaps.
                      It might be skirting around the rules... but... ala NE... It's not illegal. Look at it from another perspective DEN wants to move on. They like Brock. They prefer Brock plus 15 mil in available cap space. It's Peyton who refuses to leave... doesn't want to retire or start anew someplace else. He's comfortable here.

                      We read all the time about teams not picking up options.... I'm sure there are cases where those players return to the teams that declined option? Not typical or prevalent though, I admit.

                      But... DEN wants to move on... they decline to pick up option. They're prepared to move fwd... Manning "begs" and refuses to leave... makes us an offer we cannot refuse? Who knows.

                      I doubt it comes to this... Peyton is all about leading from the front... setting example for the NFLPA. BUt, I have to believe, Manning understands that he needs to help cap situation to maximize chances of winning this upcoming season.

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                      • #26
                        The Manning contract is not my biggest concern. As has been stated- Manning's contract is in line with a starting QB.

                        I would love to see some extra dollars saved for other free agents this year but not at the cost of mortgaging the next few years with increased dead money. Prefer keeping the dead money to minimum ( actual dollars and years) after he retires if at all possible. Elway and Co will figure that one out. Above my pay grade.

                        My biggest concern with Manning is his impact on the field this year not his lifetime achievements. Broncos can only protect him and hide the weaknesses of a 39 year old QB so much.

                        At some point a starting QB has to make the plays and win the games as a starting QB. That is how Manning should be judged. The winning of big games this year and not the size of the contract.

                        Broncos have a lot of talent. Expectations should be to legitimately compete for the SB again next year. My expectations are not the wins against the sub .500 teams, it is how Manning plays against rivals in critical games. Then we find out if he is earning his $20M this year.
                        Last edited by FR Tim; 02-11-2015, 09:40 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                          And you know this how? Are you privy to his inner thoughts? And you might want to read what johntbronco wrote in this thread. He's our resident cap guru. It doesn't seem like him restructuring his contract will really help the Broncos all that much anyway.
                          In 19 years Peyton has never taken a pay cut despite saying that he doesn't want a lot of money or that he would be willing to.

                          It's a fan forum dude.
                          Denver Broncos GM
                          Originally posted by Mosk
                          Joey Bosa ~ Jason Spriggs ~ Darian Thompson ~ Nick Vannett ~ Paul Perkins ~ Dan Vitale

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                            - What is the actual saving though of your speculated plan. It is not $19M to $10M with a $9M savings. The Broncos would still be on the hook for the $5M dead money by initially cutting him. Only a $4M savings in your scenario.
                            His cap hit this year isn't $19 million. That's his base salary. The $5 million in dead money is actually $2.5 million in additional money on top of the $2.5 million that will count this year regardless.

                            tl;dr: $21.5M - $15M = $6.5M

                            If you want to negate the extra $2.5 million acceleration in whole or part, you convert some of that $10M base to a signing bonus. The $2.5 million will still be accelerated but the amount will be offset by a lower base and half the signing bonus will count next year instead of this year. And Peyton still gets the same amount upfront.
                            "This is a terrible thread and I've negged the OP." -CoryWinget81
                            "If the ACL is torn ... Von will in fact miss next year as well." -PFM2013

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by THEdraftnik View Post
                              In 19 years Peyton has never taken a pay cut despite saying that he doesn't want a lot of money or that he would be willing to.

                              It's a fan forum dude.
                              Not a dude.
                              Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 58 broncomaniac View Post
                                I get you do not like Manning or think he is done which is your opinion, but as far as his contract it is inline for what he is worth go look at Cutler, ELI, etc even Alex Smith makes 16.9 million this upcoming season. What do they get you?
                                not much lately. They're overpaid.

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