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  • #16
    Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
    I agree with the comment up until the point where you said to stop using TE's as FB's. I really liked JJD he was a great TE/FB option IMO. I also think that the versatility is important as well as the size miss-match. TE's are usually taller and can be larger. I think that is a good thing from a flexibility of play perspective.

    Just my opinion.
    I liked JJD as well because he didn't just run up and throw his hands on a LB, he would also lower the shoulder and hit someone. Usually TEs are always taller than a true FB, average FB is about 5'11"-6'1" and 240-265 lbs, but being taller when blocking in not usually better. A lot of DEs know how to get lower and get better leverage and man handle our TEs. FBs in the flat can bowl over plenty of CBs and safetys which is another mismatch problem, Reece does it all the time, Hynoski is another good pass catcher who run over CBs. There is some other pluses to a true FB as well.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Merrick44 View Post
      I liked JJD as well because he didn't just run up and throw his hands on a LB, he would also lower the shoulder and hit someone. Usually TEs are always taller than a true FB, average FB is about 5'11"-6'1" and 240-265 lbs, but being taller when blocking in not usually better. A lot of DEs know how to get lower and get better leverage and man handle our TEs. FBs in the flat can bowl over plenty of CBs and safetys which is another mismatch problem, Reece does it all the time, Hynoski is another good pass catcher who run over CBs. There is some other pluses to a true FB as well.
      I can see that logic unless you have a guy who can lower his shoulder and mitigate his height with speed/size mix. I honestly though JJD did a great job at that. I can see a shorter broader guys doing a good job for us but an issue I have with some of the true FB's out there is that they are shorter and slower. Their opponents on the other hand are bigger and weight A LOT more. So looking at a guy like JJ Watt or even Wolfe on our team they are just shy of 300lbs but can move and move fast...most of the FB's based on combine numbers cannot move that quickly. TE's however seem to have those fast twitch muscles more developed. - IMO

      If we had the right FB- Maybe - but otherwise I think the hybrid is still the best option.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
        I can see that logic unless you have a guy who can lower his shoulder and mitigate his height with speed/size mix. I honestly though JJD did a great job at that. I can see a shorter broader guys doing a good job for us but an issue I have with some of the true FB's out there is that they are shorter and slower. Their opponents on the other hand are bigger and weight A LOT more. So looking at a guy like JJ Watt or even Wolfe on our team they are just shy of 300lbs but can move and move fast...most of the FB's based on combine numbers cannot move that quickly. TE's however seem to have those fast twitch muscles more developed. - IMO

        If we had the right FB- Maybe - but otherwise I think the hybrid is still the best option.
        We both agree with JDD was the best hybrid option we had this year, but the coaches disagreed. All your point are extremely valid. With true FBs the speed is an issue and I agree it would require the right true FB, right now I only see two available who might fit that mold in Hynoski and Hughes. Watt is just a freak of nature, but with your example of Wolfe I looked it up to compare to Hynoski.
        At the combine
        Wolfe: 6'5" 295lbs, 40 dash time- 5.01
        Hynoski: 6'0" 256lbs, 40 dash time- 5.06

        Very close. So Hynoski is not burning Wolfe but he is not catching him. I wish I could find there split times and she who can get to top speed quicker. That might show more info that we need.

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        • #19
          The OP is a joke, fix the line and then work on honing the RBs more. How many holes has the OLINE really opened up for the run game?

          Bring in a P-N-P player? It's because of fans like you that franchises feel pressure to make knee jerk changes to coaching staff and players
          I believe.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Merrick44 View Post
            We both agree with JDD was the best hybrid option we had this year, but the coaches disagreed. All your point are extremely valid. With true FBs the speed is an issue and I agree it would require the right true FB, right now I only see two available who might fit that mold in Hynoski and Hughes. Watt is just a freak of nature, but with your example of Wolfe I looked it up to compare to Hynoski.
            At the combine
            Wolfe: 6'5" 295lbs, 40 dash time- 5.01
            Hynoski: 6'0" 256lbs, 40 dash time- 5.06

            Very close. So Hynoski is not burning Wolfe but he is not catching him. I wish I could find there split times and she who can get to top speed quicker. That might show more info that we need.
            By all accounts Hynoski did not participate in all of the drills...there was no info on if he was injured or not either which leads me to believe he wasn't.

            Wolfe: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...lfe?id=2533026

            Hynoski: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...ski?id=2495465

            Stats across the top. And of note his (Henry's) 40 yard dash time was the worst of any FB in his draft.

            Also for arguments sake let say Hyoski is 255 lbs just to make my math easier that is a 40 LB difference between Wolfe and Hynoski. Also factor in that just based on combine stats (not always a great measure but good enough) Wolfe benched 225 LBS 33 times to Hynoski's 24. So I think it is a fair statement to say that even Wolfe is not only faster but he is larger and stronger....These are all things which scare me about the prototypical FB's.

            So this conversation here really got me interested in 2016 prospects at the position. Of the top 5 ranked FB's the average height is about 6 ft 1 and weight is around 230-235 LB as an average. 40-times look to be projected in the 4.7's for most of them.

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            • #21
              The running game isn't going to improve until the o line opens up better holes and blocks better, this isn't high school football where guys can't tackle, our rb's are being met in the backfield constantly by unblocked rushers. Losing Clady ... again really set the team back and he's not easily replaced.

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              • #22
                Changes i would like to see made just for the hell of it:

                1. surgically attach glove on Mannings right hand
                2. call up Bibbs from the PS and let him and Thompson take their shots at running it
                3. promote Virgil Green to the starter over Owens Daniels at TE
                4. with Ware out a few weeks, activate Kenny Anunike and see if his stellar camp produces on gameday
                "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."sigpic

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sam24 View Post
                  Dude we have not moved the ball down the field well at all. All of his down the field passes have been off target. The velocity is no longer there.

                  I don't understand how you guys keep lying to yourselves and making excuses.

                  Yes Manning has the brains, yes he can throw somewhat far but the accuracy and the velocity is not there meaning the timing is going to be off.

                  The sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.

                  Also the longer you guys make excuses the longer our defense has to suffer by getting very little rest and possibly risking injury.

                  Stop going to bat for Manning just because you feel like it's the right thing to do and start thinking about the rest of the team, mainly the defense.
                  I really hate the "Manning can't throw deep" excuse as to why the running game is struggling. Manning has been "ok" at throwing it down the field. Manning has completed 4 of 14 (29%) passes over 20 yards. For comparison here are some other QB's with their completions and attempts over 20 yards:

                  Joe Flacco - 1 of 11 (9%)
                  Matt Stafford - 1 of 8 (13%)
                  Aaron Rodgers - 5 of 13 (38%)
                  Tom Brady - 4 of 13 (31%)
                  Russel Wilson - 3 of 9 (33%)

                  Manning is close to those guys, he actually has more deep completions than Stafford and Flacco combined. He also has more deep attempts than Rodgers and Brady, if anything this team needs to throw less deep passes. The reality is that deep passes are low percentage plays regardless of who's throwing them, and they usually don't look pretty ugly.

                  The running games problem is not Manning and long passes, its the line that can't open any holes and the RBs are not breaking tackles. The running game by far was the best against the Vikings (even without Hillman's 70 yard TD) when the line actually opened some holes.

                  Kubiak HAS to figure out the running game, they need to find the right combo on the line that's going to have consistent success, and also the right RB because ATM Hillman and Anderson aren't getting it done. A successful running game could drastically cut back on Manning's pass attempts which would also cut back on the interceptions (which are killing us btw).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by #24 Next Champ View Post
                    But the difference is, 1 he can move, 2 if you leave a guy open 50 yards downfield he can PHYSICALLY get the ball down to him...and 3...his short-mid throws get to the targets quickly....all of this does not apply to geriatrics
                    Or to Peyton Manning. Just saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Buzz-wording is a way for people who like to deceive the simple to feel better about it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                      I really hate the "Manning can't throw deep" excuse as to why the running game is struggling. Manning has been "ok" at throwing it down the field. Manning has completed 4 of 14 (29%) passes over 20 yards. For comparison here are some other QB's with their completions and attempts over 20 yards:

                      Joe Flacco - 1 of 11 (9%)
                      Matt Stafford - 1 of 8 (13%)
                      Aaron Rodgers - 5 of 13 (38%)
                      Tom Brady - 4 of 13 (31%)
                      Russel Wilson - 3 of 9 (33%)

                      Manning is close to those guys, he actually has more deep completions than Stafford and Flacco combined. He also has more deep attempts than Rodgers and Brady, if anything this team needs to throw less deep passes. The reality is that deep passes are low percentage plays regardless of who's throwing them, and they usually don't look pretty ugly.

                      The running games problem is not Manning and long passes, its the line that can't open any holes and the RBs are not breaking tackles. The running game by far was the best against the Vikings (even without Hillman's 70 yard TD) when the line actually opened some holes.

                      Kubiak HAS to figure out the running game, they need to find the right combo on the line that's going to have consistent success, and also the right RB because ATM Hillman and Anderson aren't getting it done. A successful running game could drastically cut back on Manning's pass attempts which would also cut back on the interceptions (which are killing us btw).
                      Shhh....

                      You can't use logic here. Emotional blame and buzzwords are everything.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
                        Shhh....

                        You can't use logic here. Emotional blame and buzzwords are everything.
                        You're right, I know better. All good offenses throw 50 yard bombs 40 times a games completing 80% of those passes, it's exactly how I win playing Madden.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                          You're right, I know better. All good offenses throw 50 yard bombs 40 times a games completing 80% of those passes, it's exactly how I win playing Madden.
                          Shoot I would settle for some 25 yard "bombs" maybe 3-5 times a game and a solid 65-70% completion.

                          Oh and no INTs.

                          Sadly we're not lucky enough to be starting a QB capable of that.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                            Shoot I would settle for some 25 yard "bombs" maybe 3-5 times a game and a solid 65-70% completion.

                            Oh and no INTs.

                            Sadly we're not lucky enough to be starting a QB capable of that.
                            Read my above post, a QB like that doesn't exist in the NFL.

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