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  • Kneejerk Reaction vs Reality: QUESTIONS

    I said coming into this game that Andrew Luck, specifically, was something that concerned me much more than New England.

    I'm not going to indulge the PM trolling kneejerk nonsense. This is no longer the Peyton Manning show; it's the Gary Kubiak show.

    As much as I loved watching our defense this season, I knew Luck was going to be a problem and a true litmus for Wade. He failed, utterly, imo, but I'll make another thread for that.

    The bottom line: when our defense isn't enough, our offense isn't good enough to pick up the slack. it simply just isn't.

    KUBIAKS system (and ego) are NOT COMPATIBLE with Peyton Manning. In what world do you test an 18 yr old veteran and arguably one of the best- if not The Best -quarterbacks to ever play the game like Kubiak has? Peytons CLEARLY been uber pissed off through the majority of his post press interviews since GAME ONE WEEK ONE. PEYTON MANNING IS THIRTY NINE YEARS OLD!!! Yet this season looks and feels like Manning is being treated like a second year rookie who needs to "earn his stripes" before he can have any say in how to best utilize our talent on offense? WHY??? Am I missing something here???? Manning is going to own basically every qb passing record there is when he retires... he's won a Super Bowl and three AFC championships... has 5 league MVPS (Michael jordan only other athlete with 5)... and save for that freak loss to Seattle, has done little more than make the Broncos public enemy number one in the AFC for 4 years... not to mention leading the most prolific offense in NFL history in 2013. WHAT HAS KUBIAK DONE??? Besides FAIL in Texas for umpteen seasons?????? NEWSFLASH: PEYTON WAS HERE FIRST, GARY. HIS contributions to this team are documented and in the books. AND WHAT HAS KUBIAK DONE FOR THE DENVER BRONCOS??? NOTHING!!! Outside of alienating our quarterback and marginalizing Wade Phillips defensive achievements... he's done nothing.

    Seriously. Even all you trolls out there - for arguments sake, pretend there aren't any interceptions and PFMs just thrown 77 yards all season like Aaron Rodgers did last week. Does this not seem strange to you??? For realz???

    I can think of only two possible explanations:

    1. Elway thinks the window has closed and meant to use this season to oust Manning. (if so, he's succeeding)

    2. Elway thinks Peyton's control-freak "command" over his offense emasculates head coaches evidenced by crunch and post season performance. Does anyone else remember Jon Fox snapping at that reporter when Peyton first signed with the Broncos with his eyebrow-raisingly indignant "YES. WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE PEYTON MANNING TOO" response? In retrospect, Manning's played for VERY mild mannered coaches since coming to Denver. lol also, does anyone remember when Manning arrogantly waved off the punting team in indy (to dungys chagrin) and threw a touchdown?


    Say what you will about MAnning. I honestly don't care. Thus far, I don't see any evidence that his ability or capacity has in any way diminished since last year, all things being equal.

    To my mind, the Broncos little more than a QUESTION MARK (albeit a potentially threatening question mark to the rest of the AFC) because of four things:

    Elway. Kubiak. Manning. and stubbornness.

    REALLY, I just wish I knew Elways motives... and I don't. And it's frustrating.


    I only had TWO pitchers at BWWs tonight. Not a lot. But just throwing that out there.

    But I'm like 70% sure this thread will still make sense when I wake up tomorrow.
    Those odds seem reasonable. :brick::hammer:

    PLEEEEEASE no petty QB banter. Just big picture stuff, guyz... theoretical speculation. And

    EDIT: *before coming to DEnver; not 'since' coming to DEvner**
    Last edited by LoserSlick; 11-08-2015, 11:35 PM.
    fumpa.mybrute.com

  • #2
    Or there's always the possibility that I'm overreacting.

    Am I tho?
    fumpa.mybrute.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LoserSlick View Post
      I said coming into this game that Andrew Luck, specifically, was something that concerned me much more than New England.

      I'm not going to indulge the PM trolling kneejerk nonsense. This is no longer the Peyton Manning show; it's the Gary Kubiak show.

      As much as I loved watching our defense this season, I knew Luck was going to be a problem and a true litmus for Wade. He failed, utterly, imo, but I'll make another thread for that.

      The bottom line: when our defense isn't enough, our offense isn't good enough to pick up the slack. it simply just isn't.

      KUBIAKS system (and ego) are NOT COMPATIBLE with Peyton Manning. In what world do you test an 18 yr old veteran and arguably one of the best- if not The Best -quarterbacks to ever play the game like Kubiak has? Peytons CLEARLY been uber pissed off through the majority of his post press interviews since GAME ONE WEEK ONE. PEYTON MANNING IS THIRTY NINE YEARS OLD!!! Yet this season looks and feels like Manning is being treated like a second year rookie who needs to "earn his stripes" before he can have any say in how to best utilize our talent on offense? WHY??? Am I missing something here???? Manning is going to own basically every qb passing record there is when he retires... he's won a Super Bowl and three AFC championships... has 5 league MVPS (Michael jordan only other athlete with 5)... and save for that freak loss to Seattle, has done little more than make the Broncos public enemy number one in the AFC for 4 years... not to mention leading the most prolific offense in NFL history in 2013. WHAT HAS KUBIAK DONE??? Besides FAIL in Texas for umpteen seasons?????? NEWSFLASH: PEYTON WAS HERE FIRST, GARY. HIS contributions to this team are documented and in the books. AND WHAT HAS KUBIAK DONE FOR THE DENVER BRONCOS??? NOTHING!!! Outside of alienating our quarterback and marginalizing Wade Phillips defensive achievements... he's done nothing.

      Seriously. Even all you trolls out there - for arguments sake, pretend there aren't any interceptions and PFMs just thrown 77 yards all season like Aaron Rodgers did last week. Does this not seem strange to you??? For realz???

      I can think of only two possible explanations:

      1. Elway thinks the window has closed and meant to use this season to oust Manning. (if so, he's succeeding)

      2. Elway thinks Peyton's control-freak "command" over his offense emasculates head coaches evidenced by crunch and post season performance. Does anyone else remember Jon Fox snapping at that reporter when Peyton first signed with the Broncos with his eyebrow-raisingly indignant "YES. WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE PEYTON MANNING TOO" response? In retrospect, Manning's played for VERY mild mannered coaches since coming to Denver. lol also, does anyone remember when Manning arrogantly waved off the punting team in indy (to dungys chagrin) and threw a touchdown?


      Say what you will about MAnning. I honestly don't care. Thus far, I don't see any evidence that his ability or capacity has in any way diminished since last year, all things being equal.

      To my mind, the Broncos little more than a QUESTION MARK (albeit a potentially threatening question mark to the rest of the AFC) because of four things:

      Elway. Kubiak. Manning. and stubbornness.

      REALLY, I just wish I knew Elways motives... and I don't. And it's frustrating.


      I only had TWO pitchers at BWWs tonight. Not a lot. But just throwing that out there.

      But I'm like 70% sure this thread will still make sense when I wake up tomorrow.
      Those odds seem reasonable. :brick::hammer:

      PLEEEEEASE no petty QB banter. Just big picture stuff, guyz... theoretical speculation. And
      i think after seeing the Manning offense get beat 2 years in a row in the post season with the loss to Baltimore and Seattle, Elway felt that things needed to change. On paper, it makes sense to give Manning the reigns because of all of his accomplishments, but in actuality, his way wasnt enough when we go up against great defenses in big games. i think Elway realizes that the SB window is closing fast, but NOT because of Manning's age. He knows that we cant keep all of this elite level personnel because of expiring contracts. Manning is the QB because he's the best option we have. He's no longer a focal point, but rather a piece of the puzzle. Defense wins championships and the Manning way has yet to prove that. Thats why Manning is being asked/told/forced to take a back seat so to speak.

      2013 was the greatest statistical season by a QB, and we only managed to score 8 points in the most important game.

      This season is probably our best shot at winning a SB. Do we risk a repeat of what happened in 2013 by sticking with the Manning offense, or do we try something different and hope for better results?
      Last edited by broncosrule1234; 11-08-2015, 11:51 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Just like how Elway signed PM and spent a high draft pick on a QB... Just like how he wouldn't mortgage future for Joe Thomas... Elway is trying to do both, win now and be in position to win in 3-5 years...

        Elway felt betrayed that Fox released info before playoff game that Fox would be available if the team lost in the Div round. Elway knew Fox wanted out, and his pal was available. Kubrick had a winning game plan in NE, and felt he might have something to give to PM and then would be perfect to assess, and perhaps groom, Brock moving fwd.

        Elway gave his word to PM, and PM chose DEN, and Pam delivered on his promises, for the mist part, with 3 good to excellent seasons. PM earned this season... And, at 7-1, is still earning it.

        Still, only way we win is for our 3 TEs to emerge as a threat... For a semblance of a running game to emerge, and for PM to trust Kubiak.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think there is some validity to this argument but I really just come back to the offensive line. Save for last weeks performance - they are not good. Clady is missed big time and there is a reason they went after Joe Thomas. What team can consider themselves a SB contender with a rotation at left tackle? Schofield took a step back today as well. Paradis allowed Manning to be crunched as he released the ball on the 2nd INT.

          I truly think since the OL came out to start the season and quite simply stunk up the whole NFL, that Kubiak has been going back to Manning each week for more and more compromise. They thought they had a winning game plan after the GB game and tried to repeat that vs INDY but after a few drops and the run game going nowhere it simply didn't work out. I also noticed there was less going on with Manning at the LOS vs Indy. Who knows what they will come out with next week but I think both Kubiak/Manning are stuck trying to see which OL comes out each week.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by broncosrule1234 View Post
            This season is probably our best shot at winning a SB. Do we risk a repeat of what happened in 2013 by sticking with the Manning offense, or do we try something different and hope for better results?
            If we don't keep the Patriots out of Gillette stadium come the post season, it simply doesn't matter. Trust me.
            fumpa.mybrute.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Dion Lewis might be lost for the season

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pack Mules View Post
                Dion Lewis might be lost for the season
                Pack, that is honestly one of the most eyebrow-raising issues facing the Patriots in the greater context of their seemingly ALWAYS pushing the envelope (quoting Harbaugh) - ANYTHING to get a competitive edge ('winning at all costs' and so forth). Unless it's mid-game like we saw with Talib in 2013s AFCCG, talent and depth simply doesn't phase the Patriots. Like, ever. They just... "win."
                fumpa.mybrute.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  What has kubiak ever done for the Broncos.....? A heck of a lot more than Manning could ever dream of. Kubiak will be here long after manning and his colts jersey are retired.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                    What has kubiak ever done for the Broncos.....? A heck of a lot more than Manning could ever dream of. Kubiak will be here long after manning and his colts jersey are retired.
                    I agree sometimes with your assessments, but I have to say this is not one of them. Kubiak has not proved anything yet. You are speaking about the future. That's all well and good. To say Manning has not done anything for the Broncos is just absurd.

                    The minute Manning suited up as a Bronco, he made us relevant again. He made us an instant contender. I get it, we haven't won the SB, but he got us there. We've won our division, we won an AFCCG. We got back into the relevancy again.

                    I love Kubiak and I'm glad he's here, but he hasn't done anything yet and we will have to wait and see what the future holds. Unless you are a clairvoyant and have some kind of eye to predict what the future holds, you and I have no idea what Kubiak will do for us.

                    And your comment about his Colt jersey, pretty low if you ask me. Therein lies the issue. You continually claim to be a Broncos fan. Manning is a Bronco. Your statement shows that you really never really considered Manning a Bronco in the first place.

                    Edit: Sorry Papa, I understand that you were talking about Kube's first stint as a Bronco so I apologize for forgetting our history with him. Therefore I do need to take back some of what I said. But I do believe that Manning has also contributed to our team in a meaningful way.
                    Last edited by broncoslover115; 11-09-2015, 07:36 AM.
                    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 18to88 View Post
                      I think there is some validity to this argument but I really just come back to the offensive line. Save for last weeks performance - they are not good. Clady is missed big time and there is a reason they went after Joe Thomas. What team can consider themselves a SB contender with a rotation at left tackle? Schofield took a step back today as well. Paradis allowed Manning to be crunched as he released the ball on the 2nd INT.

                      I truly think since the OL came out to start the season and quite simply stunk up the whole NFL, that Kubiak has been going back to Manning each week for more and more compromise. They thought they had a winning game plan after the GB game and tried to repeat that vs INDY but after a few drops and the run game going nowhere it simply didn't work out. I also noticed there was less going on with Manning at the LOS vs Indy. Who knows what they will come out with next week but I think both Kubiak/Manning are stuck trying to see which OL comes out each week.
                      I have been saying this for a while now. Our line has played well against a certain type of defense. We will get crushed against others. We simply do not have the size/speed combination required to be both a great pass pro and run offense. For some reason I am not seeing aggression. This was one of the reasons I really liked D.Day in our preseason. He played with real aggression at the Center position. Schofeild took a big step back and so did Mathis and frankly so did Vaz. The latter surprised me. The colts ran right up the gut on our line often right between the guards and the Center.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sam can correct us all, but I'll conjecture this Zone blocking scheme is causing headaches for o-line where they think they r doing there job but there are no-man-lanes opening up that no one is blocking.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                          I agree sometimes with your assessments, but I have to say this is not one of them. Kubiak has not proved anything yet. You are speaking about the future. That's all well and good. To say Manning has not done anything for the Broncos is just absurd.

                          The minute Manning suited up as a Bronco, he made us relevant again. He made us an instant contender. I get it, we haven't won the SB, but he got us there. We've won our division, we won an AFCCG. We got back into the relevancy again.

                          I love Kubiak and I'm glad he's here, but he hasn't done anything yet and we will have to wait and see what the future holds. Unless you are a clairvoyant and have some kind of eye to predict what the future holds, you and I have no idea what Kubiak will do for us.

                          And your comment about his Colt jersey, pretty low if you ask me. Therein lies the issue. You continually claim to be a Broncos fan. Manning is a Bronco. Your statement shows that you really never really considered Manning a Bronco in the first place.
                          What he was speaking about was Kubes legacy here. From his time as a backup and his tenure as as an OC calling the plays during our SB runs, up through the 2005 AFCCG. Kubes has a legacy here that spans decades and generations. He was here b4 Manning, and he'll be here after. That's what Papa-Pwn's talking about.
                          #swapping

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                            What he was speaking about was Kubes legacy here. From his time as a backup and his tenure as as an OC calling the plays during our SB runs, up through the 2005 AFCCG. Kubes has a legacy here that spans decades and generations. He was here b4 Manning, and he'll be here after. That's what Papa-Pwn's talking about.
                            Ah, thank you for that. I can appreciate that now. You and he then are correct; I temporarily lost my history.
                            Last edited by broncoslover115; 11-09-2015, 07:36 AM.
                            Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                              I agree sometimes with your assessments, but I have to say this is not one of them. Kubiak has not proved anything yet. You are speaking about the future. That's all well and good. To say Manning has not done anything for the Broncos is just absurd.

                              The minute Manning suited up as a Bronco, he made us relevant again. He made us an instant contender. I get it, we haven't won the SB, but he got us there. We've won our division, we won an AFCCG. We got back into the relevancy again.

                              I love Kubiak and I'm glad he's here, but he hasn't done anything yet and we will have to wait and see what the future holds. Unless you are a clairvoyant and have some kind of eye to predict what the future holds, you and I have no idea what Kubiak will do for us.

                              And your comment about his Colt jersey, pretty low if you ask me. Therein lies the issue. You continually claim to be a Broncos fan. Manning is a Bronco. Your statement shows that you really never really considered Manning a Bronco in the first place.
                              i think he is including kubiaks first stint as oc where he helped lead us to two sb
                              sigpic
                              oakland raders gm
                              latavis murray trade bait

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