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Worst O-line since the 70s?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    I have watched several Pats games and while their OL is not up to their usual standard to compare their OL to ours is not even the same ball park...not even the same sport....want to rub my feet? Ok jokes aside
    The Patriots lost their starting LT, Nate Solder, and their starting C, Ryan Wendell, to injuries. Their current C, Bryan Stork, spent the first 8 games on IR/designated to return. That means they had to start rookie UDFA David Andrews at C. Another rookie, Shaq Mason, is starting at LG.

    The Patriots have played with four different LTs this season. Marcus Cannon became their stopgap LT but also got injured. They moved RT Vollmer to LT. OT Cameron Fleming had to be promoted from the practice squad. RG Josh Kline was an UDFA in 2013, started only 5 games in 2014 and now is getting his first full season a starter.

    Their situation got so bad they had to play a game with this OL: Practice-squad player Cameron Fleming at LT, rookie Shaq Mason at LG, rookie David Andrews at center, Josh Kline at RG and center Bryan Stork at RT.

    Is that a makeshift OL or what? Tom Brady is the reason they win with that OL and without a running game. Brady makes good reads, has elite pocket presence and gets rid of the ball quicker than any other QB.
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    • #17
      Would you guys rather have the HOU OL that David Carr had?
      "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
        The Patriots lost their starting LT, Nate Solder, and their starting C, Ryan Wendell, to injuries. Their current C, Bryan Stork, spent the first 8 games on IR/designated to return. That means they had to start rookie UDFA David Andrews at C. Another rookie, Shaq Mason, is starting at LG.

        The Patriots have played with four different LTs this season. Marcus Cannon became their stopgap LT but also got injured. They moved RT Vollmer to LT. OT Cameron Fleming had to be promoted from the practice squad. RG Josh Kline was an UDFA in 2013, started only 5 games in 2014 and now is getting his first full season a starter.

        Their situation got so bad they had to play a game with this OL: Practice-squad player Cameron Fleming at LT, rookie Shaq Mason at LG, rookie David Andrews at center, Josh Kline at RG and center Bryan Stork at RT.

        Is that a makeshift OL or what? Tom Brady is the reason they win with that OL and without a running game. Brady makes good reads, has elite pocket presence and gets rid of the ball quicker than any other QB.
        Once again

        Their backups are playing better than our starters

        I am aware of their injury history this season. Still in every game I have watched i do not even remember even half the free runners or guys beat so badly they may as well be a free runner we allow on an average per game.

        It does not matter who the qb is....the guy still needs to catch the snap.
        .take a sec or so than throw.

        Brady has that much time. No non-mobile qb in this history of the NFL has a release time to get rid of the ball when our OL gets beat badly or does not even block a guy like happens on a regular basis.

        How many times has Mathis been a revolving door in pass protection? 3 comes to mind easily. How many times was harris beaten do badly it was like he was not even blocking....twice comes to mind...is any OL on the Pats OL rated as bad as Schof?

        I admit i have not watched every Pat game but the ones I have watched I would gladly take any of those OL individual performances over most of what I have seen each of our OL do all year. I do not care if they were a 1st round pick or a Cell Phone Booth worker two days before...they not giving up pressure like they are high school players like our OL
        Let's Ride!

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        • #19
          B e c a u s e t h e y a r e a l l i n j u r e d a n d s t i l l p l a y i n g.
          I believe.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
            The Patriots lost their starting LT, Nate Solder, and their starting C, Ryan Wendell, to injuries. Their current C, Bryan Stork, spent the first 8 games on IR/designated to return. That means they had to start rookie UDFA David Andrews at C. Another rookie, Shaq Mason, is starting at LG.

            The Patriots have played with four different LTs this season. Marcus Cannon became their stopgap LT but also got injured. They moved RT Vollmer to LT. OT Cameron Fleming had to be promoted from the practice squad. RG Josh Kline was an UDFA in 2013, started only 5 games in 2014 and now is getting his first full season a starter.

            Their situation got so bad they had to play a game with this OL: Practice-squad player Cameron Fleming at LT, rookie Shaq Mason at LG, rookie David Andrews at center, Josh Kline at RG and center Bryan Stork at RT.

            Is that a makeshift OL or what? Tom Brady is the reason they win with that OL and without a running game. Brady makes good reads, has elite pocket presence and gets rid of the ball quicker than any other QB.
            Would you say that playcalling has anything to do with their ability to make it work? The quick passes, slants, rub routes, etc. That's what I see that helps with dealing with their crappy line.
            Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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            • #21
              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
              Steve Tensi played his last game as a pro football player in 1970 when he started two games for the Denver Broncos. IDK if I'd call it the "Steve Tensi Era".

              During the ten years between Frank Tripucka and Charley Johnson, twelve QBs started games for the Denver Broncos: Jacky Lee; Mickey Slaughter; John McCormick; Max Choboian; Scotty Glacken; Steve Tensi; Jim LeClair; Marlin Briscoe; Pete Liske; Alan Pastrana; Steve Ramsey; and, Don Horn.

              In the Sixties, the Denver Broncos had several All-Pro O-Linemen: Ken Adamson; Jerry Sturm; Eldon Danenhauer; Larry Kaminski; Mike Current; and, George Goedekke.
              Didn't Tensi come over from the Chargers? He was a good sized guy with a good arm, supposed to be the answer at QB, but then that's what they said about Steve Ramsey too. I remember Coach Ralston saying he was trying to trade for Greg Landry of the Lions and bad mouthing Ramsey, and I think Jim Plunkett's name was in there too; when it didn't work out the next season he was trying to "sell" the team on Ramsey. I remember him coming off the field after throwing an interception in a HUGE game at New England and laughing about it, and a few players wanting to punch him in the mouth! IF Denver had won that game at New England they might've made the playoffs in '76, but had to wait a year until Ramsey and Ralston were gone.

              Charley Johnson was real good, except his body was pretty shot. But man he injected life in the offense and made it exciting!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by East Coast Fan View Post
                Didn't Tensi come over from the Chargers? He was a good sized guy with a good arm, supposed to be the answer at QB, but then that's what they said about Steve Ramsey too. I remember Coach Ralston saying he was trying to trade for Greg Landry of the Lions and bad mouthing Ramsey, and I think Jim Plunkett's name was in there too; when it didn't work out the next season he was trying to "sell" the team on Ramsey. I remember him coming off the field after throwing an interception in a HUGE game at New England and laughing about it, and a few players wanting to punch him in the mouth! IF Denver had won that game at New England they might've made the playoffs in '76, but had to wait a year until Ramsey and Ralston were gone.

                Charley Johnson was real good, except his body was pretty shot. But man he injected life in the offense and made it exciting!
                Yes. Lou Saban traded two first round draft picks to the Chargers for Steve Tensi who was backing up John Hadl at the time. Since Frank Tripucka, Denver had been in search of a QB.

                Charley Johnson quarterbacked the Broncos to their first winning season. During his years in Saint Louis, he earned a Masters and Doctorate in Chemical engineering from Washington University. When he retired from pro football he returned to his alma mater, NMSU, to be a professor. He retired three years ago.

                I remember that New England* game. Wasn't their QB at the time Steve Grogan from K-State?
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                  Would you say that playcalling has anything to do with their ability to make it work? The quick passes, slants, rub routes, etc. That's what I see that helps with dealing with their crappy line.
                  Play calling (for ex calling a max or near max protection) and adjusting double teams. IMO Green, Davis and CJ should all be options available when we need to double team a guy.

                  Remember that game against the Pats a couple years ago Von was dominating that first half. Go back and look at the 2nd half....there were very few plays Von was not getting chipped...short double teamed or doubled teamed entire play.

                  Why we did not do that against Mack is a great mystery imo

                  It reminds me when they show highlights of Derrick Thomas seven sack day...there are times in the 3rd and 4th qtr he is still getting single teamed. On the play the Seahawks won the game they were single teaming Thomas and he should have closed the game out with a sack but he missed the tackle.

                  Not double teaming a guy like that is how dudes end up with career days and how most of the time your team loses.

                  I herd Kubiak made excuses why he did not adjust against Mack....I did not even want to go listen to it. Hope what I herd is wrong.
                  Let's Ride!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                    I remember that New England* game. Wasn't their QB at the time Steve Grogan from K-State?
                    I believe you are correct! Denver had a chance to go up there and make a playoff bid and got destroyed, it wasn't even close. I would assume Red Miller was with the Patriots at that time too!

                    One of the things that I admired about Red was that he gave credit to John Ralston and acknowledged the role that he played in bringing great talent to Denver. And Ralston after he was fired and saw Denver go to the Super Bowl was asked "how do you feel about that? Are you bitter because that's basically the team that you built?" said "whomever gets the credit is not important, the important thing is that the job gets done". I think that was really classy on both coach's part.....

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                      Would you say that playcalling has anything to do with their ability to make it work? The quick passes, slants, rub routes, etc. That's what I see that helps with dealing with their crappy line.
                      Brady can read the defense and make good adjustments at the line just like Peyton Manning. The difference is that Brady is healthy and can move around way better than Manning. Brady would never take all those sacks from Mack, even with our OL. He would change plays, change protections, step up in the pocket instead of drifting like Osweiler, throw the ball away, make quick reads and throws, etc. A young and inexperienced QB like Osweiler still does not have full command of the offense and he also does not have enough awareness to work with an internal clock to avoid the pass rush.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by East Coast Fan View Post
                        I believe you are correct! Denver had a chance to go up there and make a playoff bid and got destroyed, it wasn't even close. I would assume Red Miller was with the Patriots at that time too!

                        One of the things that I admired about Red was that he gave credit to John Ralston and acknowledged the role that he played in bringing great talent to Denver. And Ralston after he was fired and saw Denver go to the Super Bowl was asked "how do you feel about that? Are you bitter because that's basically the team that you built?" said "whomever gets the credit is not important, the important thing is that the job gets done". I think that was really classy on both coach's part.....
                        Getting rid of Ralston was a BIG mistake by the Broncos. He was making year by year progress and was a draft mastermind. I read somewhere that Tom Jackson said, in hindsight, it was a mistake. After 77, Red Miller began a downward spiral that cuminated in his firing. Red just didnt have the ability to draft well.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                          Steve Tensi played his last game as a pro football player in 1970 when he started two games for the Denver Broncos. IDK if I'd call it the "Steve Tensi Era".

                          During the ten years between Frank Tripucka and Charley Johnson, twelve QBs started games for the Denver Broncos: Jacky Lee; Mickey Slaughter; John McCormick; Max Choboian; Scotty Glacken; Steve Tensi; Jim LeClair; Marlin Briscoe; Pete Liske; Alan Pastrana; Steve Ramsey; and, Don Horn.

                          My favorite was Marlin Briscoe, the first African-American pro QB.

                          In the Sixties, the Denver Broncos had several All-Pro O-Linemen: Ken Adamson; Jerry Sturm; Eldon Danenhauer; Larry Kaminski; Mike Current; and, George Goedekke.
                          Coach Danenhauer was my HS gym coach, at the time he was making about $7K a year from the broncos and needed another job to make things meet.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ArchAngel View Post
                            Getting rid of Ralston was a BIG mistake by the Broncos. He was making year by year progress and was a draft mastermind. I read somewhere that Tom Jackson said, in hindsight, it was a mistake. After 77, Red Miller began a downward spiral that cuminated in his firing. Red just didnt have the ability to draft well.
                            The reason Ralston was fired was because of the player revolt. It's the only time in USA sports history I can remember a team of players demanding a coach be fired. Ralston simply wasn't a very good coach. He was very good in the draft however, and was offered the GM job when he was fired as coach, but declined.

                            Also, I wouldn't say the Broncos "spiraled downward" under Miller. His record was 12-2, 10-6, 10-6, 8-8. 3 of those 4 years the Broncos had better records than any of the years under Ralston.

                            In response to the OP, IMO this is the worst OL I've seen since the mid 70s. I believe the 76-77 OL may have been the worst to ever play in the Superbowl. Craig Morton was very badly beaten that year. There's a reason two Cowboy DL were named co-MVPs of the Superbowl that year (Harvey Martin and Randy White). Generally, DLs aren't named MVPs...Tom Glassic was a rookie and not very good at all, but did improve over the course of his career.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
                              The reason Ralston was fired was because of the player revolt. It's the only time in USA sports history I can remember a team of players demanding a coach be fired. Ralston simply wasn't a very good coach. He was very good in the draft however, and was offered the GM job when he was fired as coach, but declined.

                              Also, I wouldn't say the Broncos "spiraled downward" under Miller. His record was 12-2, 10-6, 10-6, 8-8. 3 of those 4 years the Broncos had better records than any of the years under Ralston.

                              In response to the OP, IMO this is the worst OL I've seen since the mid 70s. I believe the 76-77 OL may have been the worst to ever play in the Superbowl. Craig Morton was very badly beaten that year. There's a reason two Cowboy DL were named co-MVPs of the Superbowl that year (Harvey Martin and Randy White). Generally, DLs aren't named MVPs...Tom Glassic was a rookie and not very good at all, but did improve over the course of his career.
                              Glassic was very underweight in that Super Bowl because he had been sick I believe, so that didn't help. Andy Maurer was basically a "beefed-up" guard playing left tackle. Mike Montler was good at center, Paul Howard was pretty good and Claudie Minor was huge, but they just got overwhelmed at times by Dallas' d-line. The one player who actually DID do a good job of blocking was tight end Riley Odoms, but he could only do so much.

                              I often wondered how things would've maybe been different had they put Morton in the shotgun to give him some more time. Oh well.....

                              And yes, could you imagine what the team would've been like IF Ralston was doing the drafting and Miller was coaching? I think THAT would've been great!

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                              • #30
                                I dunno, I seem to remember some pretty terribad offensive lines from our teams in the 80's. Elway had to run for his life quite a bit, but he was so great at avoiding defenders and extending plays that we often forget that he is pretty close to the top of the all-time sack list. In fact, I think Elway is 2nd only to Favre, because Favre played ever since they rode dinosaurs to the stadium
                                Fire Rick Dennison - This Signature will stay until the worst playcaller in the NFL is gone.

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