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What's the earliest we could reasonably release DT?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by vanpelt4prez View Post
    So were you saying the same thing about Von last few years? Doesn't show up in big games" "Too risky with off the field issues"

    Almost all big contract guys are overpaid and make it tough on a team in regards to the salary cap.
    I addressed the point about VM at the end of the other thread "Why-didn-t-they-let-demaryius-thomas-hold-the-Lombardi" in that he deserves to be paid well for having such a huge impact in the last 2 games, but shouldn't be immune to protections in the contract if he doesn't "show up." These contracts are being written to almost exclusively benefit players rather than the team, yet it takes a "Team Effort" to win. It makes no sense.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by gerontion View Post
      I know a lot of people are down on him for his sub-par regular season and awful post season. This thread isn't meant to rehash any of that, just to see where we are with him in terms of the cap. It seems we obviously can't trade or cut him in 2016 due to the enormous cap hit. Likewise in 2017. According to overthecap.com, if we cut cut him after 6-1-18, the dead money would only be about 3.5 million for 2018 and 3.5 million for 2019. Meanwhile, the cap savings for those two years would be 8.5 million and 14 million, respectively. Anyway, hopefully some of you guys will chime in on this.
      Not to say DT couldn't have done better, but is anyone considering the fact the QB and OL have been struggling most of the year? He can't catch what isn't thrown to him and will have challenges catching what isn't thrown well....

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      • #33
        Everybody lay off of DT. It's getting really old. He had over 1300 yards last season, but didn't get as many touchdowns as people have come to expect. He was dealing with an offense that struggled all year especially in the red zone. We had two different starting QBs with different skillsets, and he had to learn a new offense, which we didn't run consistently...He's staying!

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        • #34
          One thing left out of the mix were the deep routes, not that there were a lot. DT had several where he was 2 steps past DBs - Manning and Oz were off target. I'm not saying they should be perfect but DT wasn't always the issue. If you add a few of those he could have easily been at 1500-1600 yards.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by paycheckeffort View Post
            Seems like every time I see posts about the cap hit cutting DT the numbers are different. Leaves me wondering which one is accurate.
            I got my numbers directly from overthecap.com which is accurate

            http://overthecap.com/player/demaryius-thomas/17

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            • #36
              I hate how DT let us down so often in critical situations.
              -
              He out right SUCKED many times...
              and quoting his stats for the season don't tell the story...
              of him not fighting for the ball targeted to him, and the resulting 7 plus INTs.
              -
              I dont like how he held out.. then signed a monster deal...
              and then let us down over and over in crunch time.
              -
              There is NO TEAM out there anyway...
              who would take his contract after that 1 for 8 in SB 50.
              Too much dough for that gamble.
              -
              That said...
              You guys have convinced me..
              that there is nothing to be done now...
              but to let it go...
              PRAY he has a great summer...
              and becomes the player he has the potential to be..
              (Notice I did not say RETURNS to the player he was?)

              -
              I'm done batchin about DT.
              I accept it. He is here, at way too much money.
              let's hope next season he actually earns it.
              - Go Broncos 2017 and Beyond! -

              Super Bowl 50 CHAMPIONS!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by johntbronco View Post
                I got my numbers directly from overthecap.com which is accurate

                http://overthecap.com/player/demaryius-thomas/17
                Ok I see some of the discrepancy involves timing of the cut:
                cut before June 1 - 34.3 mil dead money
                after - 23.7 mil dead money
                trade in 2016 - 12.8 mil dead money
                trade in 2017 - 10.6 mil dead money

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by vanpelt4prez View Post
                  So were you saying the same thing about Von last few years? Doesn't show up in big games" "Too risky with off the field issues"

                  Almost all big contract guys are overpaid and make it tough on a team in regards to the salary cap.
                  Yep, and that's why Bellichek doesn't play that game. It doesn't seem to slow them down, does it?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CDUB1620 View Post
                    Everybody lay off of DT. It's getting really old. He had over 1300 yards last season, but didn't get as many touchdowns as people have come to expect. He was dealing with an offense that struggled all year especially in the red zone. We had two different starting QBs with different skillsets, and he had to learn a new offense, which we didn't run consistently...He's staying!
                    Have you considered that he was ONE OF THE REASONS the red zone offense was so poor? It's called CHOKING I believe.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by johntbronco View Post
                      I got my numbers directly from overthecap.com which is accurate

                      http://overthecap.com/player/demaryius-thomas/17
                      Actually, in this case I think the 'cut/trade' menu on the OTC page is confusing, for a couple of reasons.

                      Firstly, it regards DT's 2017 base salary of $8.5M as being fully guaranteed, when in fact this is an injury guarantee only. It will vest to fully guaranteed in 2017; so we would not incur that dead money hit if we were to cut him now.

                      Secondly, it regards the $4M option bonus as dead money, but that option has not yet been picked up and so would not count as dead money. I'm not sure of the date for that option bonus, but I believe it needs to be picked up some time in 2017, at which point the $4M will be prorated over the final 3 years of the contract, on top of the initial signing bonus proration.

                      So, considering all of this, I believe the dead money hit if we were to release DT today would be $21.8M. That comprises of his fully guaranteed 2016 base salary ($13M) and the rest of his initial signing bonus proration ($8.8M).
                      2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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                      • #41
                        Back to the OP's question - from all the analysis thus far seems 2017 would be the earliest and realistically 2018.

                        Whether you are pro DT or want him gone - no upside to releasing him.

                        If someone can make a case for what you gain by releasing him then have at it.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by uknflfan View Post
                          Actually, in this case I think the 'cut/trade' menu on the OTC page is confusing, for a couple of reasons.

                          Firstly, it regards DT's 2017 base salary of $8.5M as being fully guaranteed, when in fact this is an injury guarantee only. It will vest to fully guaranteed in 2017; so we would not incur that dead money hit if we were to cut him now.

                          Secondly, it regards the $4M option bonus as dead money, but that option has not yet been picked up and so would not count as dead money. I'm not sure of the date for that option bonus, but I believe it needs to be picked up some time in 2017, at which point the $4M will be prorated over the final 3 years of the contract, on top of the initial signing bonus proration.

                          So, considering all of this, I believe the dead money hit if we were to release DT today would be $21.8M. That comprises of his fully guaranteed 2016 base salary ($13M) and the rest of his initial signing bonus proration ($8.8M).

                          That 34.3 did seem too high- not sure why they calculate it that way. If the 12.5M doesn't count, then a cut after June 1 is actually 11.2M instead of 23.7M right? What about the dead money trade numbers for 2016 & 2017?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by paycheckeffort View Post
                            That 34.3 did seem too high- not sure why they calculate it that way. If the 12.5M doesn't count, then a cut after June 1 is actually 11.2M instead of 23.7M right? What about the dead money trade numbers for 2016 & 2017?
                            A post June 1 cut would incur a dead money hit of $15.2M for 2016. The remaining portion of the bonus proration ($6.6M) would be dead money in 2017.

                            In 2017, DT's cap number is $12.03M. If we cut him early enough, we should only incur a dead money hit of $6.6M (the signing bonus proration). However, his base salary of $8.5M will vest to fully guaranteed if he is not released by a certain date. Also, there is the issue of his option bonus. I am not sure of when the deadline for the Broncos to exercise the option is, but obviously they would need to release him before this date.

                            In 2018, DT's cap number is again $12.03M. By this time, I believe the option bonus will have been exercised, and so to release him will cost $7.06M in dead money. If he is a post June 1 cut, that number would be split, with half counting against 2018 and half against 2019.

                            In 2019, DT's cap number is $17.53M. The dead money hit for releasing him would be $3.53M.

                            One important thing to remember is that if the Broncos choose not to pick up DT's option, then his contract will void (they will not have to release him). In that case, any contract DT signs would count for the Broncos compensatory pick allocation.

                            Overall, I can't paint a completely clear picture unless I know the date that the option must be exercised by. However, I do think it is pretty likely that DT stays on the roster until 2019. Mainly because his cap numbers are relatively low in both 2017 and 2018. As long as he is still playing at a high level, he will likely be regarded as a bargain at that price. If indeed he is still on the roster in 2019, I would expect either a release or a pay cut.
                            Last edited by uknflfan; 02-14-2016, 10:07 AM.
                            2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by osfantaztic View Post
                              One thing left out of the mix were the deep routes, not that there were a lot. DT had several where he was 2 steps past DBs - Manning and Oz were off target. I'm not saying they should be perfect but DT wasn't always the issue. If you add a few of those he could have easily been at 1500-1600 yards.
                              Personally I think the negative silly talk about his play is waaaaaaaayyyyy over the top. Did he have a stellar year? No, but who on the offense did? Even the beloved Sanders' production was down by the same amount. They were all 5-6 TD's, 150-200 yards, and 2-3 drops off their usual production. SO by that token, should we be looking to dump or trade ES also???????
                              #swapping

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                                Personally I think the negative silly talk about his play is waaaaaaaayyyyy over the top. Did he have a stellar year? No, but who on the offense did? Even the beloved Sanders' production was down by the same amount. They were all 5-6 TD's, 150-200 yards, and 2-3 drops off their usual production. SO by that token, should we be looking to dump or trade ES also???????
                                I'm not one calling to cut or trade him.

                                The issue is his perfoemance relative to the contract. An elite contract requires elite play. Take aside the struggles on offense it's as simple as the game vs New England. He dropped what, 12 passes in a row? He held out of drills to get a contract paid as a Top 3 WR - backup your contract. I'll take 8-9 for 13 in that game but not 1-13.

                                Nobody is perfect but you don't give up on routes and drop 12 "catchable" balls when you have his contract.

                                As far as Sanders his contract is no where near DT. He's supposed to be the #2 and he plays by far like the #1.

                                The overall yards don't tell the full story for DT. He dropped passes many times that killed drives - easy passes.

                                I think we can be reasonable about DT. His play was not worthy of his contract nor was he terrible.

                                So often we take ridgid positions and the truth sits in the middle.
                                Last edited by Fantaztic7; 02-14-2016, 04:51 PM.

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