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  • Will Von be re-signed this off-season?

    After mulling everything over in my head and listening to the local Denver radio stations, and reading plenty of articles on several sports related websites I have a new concern.

    How in the world is Elway going to be able to re-sign Von this off-season? I think it's pretty clear we are in a cap situation, and I also think most of us know Von is gonna want to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

    I think the numbers are gonna be at least 20 to 21 million per season to re-sign Miller. So, we are gonna need around 6 million for the draft pool, I'm assuming we'll sign a couple of free agents, and need about 1 million for injuries and such during the season. We have a QB situation, which may have changed our upcoming draft plans outright.
    We just restructured Ware which helps, and hopefully Clady to come. We've cut a few players, we really don't have a bunch of players left to cut to clear cap room.

    Question is, if we can't re-sign Von before the season like we did in the past with DT, and Clady, will he be offended, and ultimately cause Denver to lose him? With the current cap situation, and holes to fill, how in the world is it possible to re-sign before the season? I personally feel if we don't re-sign him before the season, we WILL ultimately lose him because of it.

    This is my concern dudes.

  • #2
    Worst case scenario we can tag him again next year, he is a rare player that is worth actually doing that to. As far as his long term contract, it is very possible and somewhat likely that a new contract would actually lower his cap hit for this season.
    Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

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    • #3
      The answer to the question is yes.
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • #4
        I don't think he gets a new deal until camp. While he is the most important player on the team his contract is one of the lowest priorities on the list since we know he isn't going anywhere for the time being. Von and Marshall both wont get new deals this off season expect elway to be focused on the guys he doesn't have rather then the ones he does for now.

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        • #5
          I love Von Miller, he's been my favorite Bronco since he's been here. However, I think it is imperative that we draft his replacement this year in case we can't get him signed. I don't think we should give him 20 million per year over the next 5 or 6 years. In my opinion there is no one player worth that and there never will be. Why hamstring our cap for a half a decade just to overpay a guy to keep him? I know he is a top 5 pass rusher in the league, I know he had an incredible play-off run and we finally saw exactly what he can do when motivated. However, he has a knack for disappearing in games and has that off the field stuff hanging over his head. One more hit from a joint and he's done for a season probably, we really wanna pay 20 mill to take that chance? Theres a reason New England traded Chandler Jones, they were gonna have to re-sign him soon and there was no way they were giving him a 100 mill contract for 10-12 sacks a year. We are in the same boat with Von, if he were pushing 20 sacks per year and looked the way he did in the play-offs all the time then yeah, I'd consider it, but at this juncture we cannot hamstring our franchise for one guy. Does anyone thing Barrett or Ray would be that big of a drop-off production wise? If we do ink Von long term, it has to be more of an incentive based deal IMO, put something on the line that he has to work for every year. I know this isn't s popular response but it's common sense really. Unless u have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, no one is worth 20 million per year, those guys impact 50 plays per game, a stud defensive player maybe impacts 15-20.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
            I love Von Miller, he's been my favorite Bronco since he's been here. However, I think it is imperative that we draft his replacement this year in case we can't get him signed. I don't think we should give him 20 million per year over the next 5 or 6 years. In my opinion there is no one player worth that and there never will be. Why hamstring our cap for a half a decade just to overpay a guy to keep him? I know he is a top 5 pass rusher in the league, I know he had an incredible play-off run and we finally saw exactly what he can do when motivated. However, he has a knack for disappearing in games and has that off the field stuff hanging over his head. One more hit from a joint and he's done for a season probably, we really wanna pay 20 mill to take that chance? Theres a reason New England traded Chandler Jones, they were gonna have to re-sign him soon and there was no way they were giving him a 100 mill contract for 10-12 sacks a year. We are in the same boat with Von, if he were pushing 20 sacks per year and looked the way he did in the play-offs all the time then yeah, I'd consider it, but at this juncture we cannot hamstring our franchise for one guy. Does anyone thing Barrett or Ray would be that big of a drop-off production wise? If we do ink Von long term, it has to be more of an incentive based deal IMO, put something on the line that he has to work for every year. I know this isn't s popular response but it's common sense really. Unless u have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, no one is worth 20 million per year, those guys impact 50 plays per game, a stud defensive player maybe impacts 15-20.


            You are 100% Correct.Teams that have any player outside a QB on 20 million a year will find it very VERY hard
            to win Super Bowls.I do agree that outside QB's Pass rushers are your most important commodity but with our interior D with Wolfe,Sly and hopefully 1st draft pick this year to replace MJ we will be in a position that with Ray,Barrett and a 2nd rounder next year to replace D Ware we should be good for pass rushers.

            I would tag Von this year and next and if we need to pay over 20 Million a year as the current market indicates then sadly it is time to move on.Having said all that if we roll with Sanchez at QB this year with no Kaep,Fitzpatrick etc and the hefty cap figure that will come with these two then I would be quite happy Re signing Von and paying him $26 Million this year and 20 the next as long as say for example we get 4 years after that at about 16 Million a year.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
              I love Von Miller, he's been my favorite Bronco since he's been here. However, I think it is imperative that we draft his replacement this year in case we can't get him signed. I don't think we should give him 20 million per year over the next 5 or 6 years. In my opinion there is no one player worth that and there never will be. Why hamstring our cap for a half a decade just to overpay a guy to keep him? I know he is a top 5 pass rusher in the league, I know he had an incredible play-off run and we finally saw exactly what he can do when motivated. However, he has a knack for disappearing in games and has that off the field stuff hanging over his head. One more hit from a joint and he's done for a season probably, we really wanna pay 20 mill to take that chance? Theres a reason New England traded Chandler Jones, they were gonna have to re-sign him soon and there was no way they were giving him a 100 mill contract for 10-12 sacks a year. We are in the same boat with Von, if he were pushing 20 sacks per year and looked the way he did in the play-offs all the time then yeah, I'd consider it, but at this juncture we cannot hamstring our franchise for one guy. Does anyone thing Barrett or Ray would be that big of a drop-off production wise? If we do ink Von long term, it has to be more of an incentive based deal IMO, put something on the line that he has to work for every year. I know this isn't s popular response but it's common sense really. Unless u have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, no one is worth 20 million per year, those guys impact 50 plays per game, a stud defensive player maybe impacts 15-20.
              Yeah you're right. I'd be looking to replace him if you think he'd command 21+ million.

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              • #8
                Miller needs a chunk upfront to make him happy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
                  One more hit from a joint and he's done for a season probably, we really wanna pay 20 mill to take that chance? Theres a reason New England traded Chandler Jones, they were gonna have to re-sign him soon and there was no way they were giving him a 100 mill contract for 10-12 sacks a year. We are in the same boat with Von, if he were pushing 20 sacks per year and looked the way he did in the play-offs all the time then yeah, I'd consider it, but at this juncture we cannot hamstring our franchise for one guy. Does anyone thing Barrett or Ray would be that big of a drop-off production wise?
                  A couple points I would make here:

                  1) I'm pretty sure your slate gets 'wiped clean' with regards to the weed issue if you are clean for a certain period of time. I could be wrong here, but I don't think Von will get a season suspension if he messes up again.

                  2) Your statements regarding Chandler Jones and Ray/Barrett indicate that you are vastly underestimating how good Von is.

                  For starters, Chandler Jones is not worthy of holding Von's jock. It is true that he would have commanded a lot next offseason, but let's not pretend that Belichick just let a player equivalent to Von Miller get away. As for Barrett and Ray, yes, the drop off in production would be huge. If Von walks, say goodbye to our elite defense. No way they come close to his production, or his impact on the game.
                  2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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                  • #10
                    Agents demand insane contracts but their asking price always comes down by the deadline.

                    IMO the player agent (and player's desire to not get control of their agent) is why we never see deals until last min

                    Von will sign a multi year deal imo....only question will be how many hours left until the deadline
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                      I don't think he gets a new deal until camp.
                      Deadline to sign franchised players to a long term deal is July 15th. Deadlines tend to spur action, and last year DT signed right on the deadline. I would expect a similar situation with Von.
                      2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ELWAY421 View Post
                        Von is gonna want to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

                        I think the numbers are gonna be at least 20 to 21 million per season to re-sign Miller. So, we are gonna need around 6 million for the draft pool, I'm assuming we'll sign a couple of free agents, and need about 1 million for injuries and such during the season.
                        I know a lot of folks think Von will be the highest paid defender in the NFL and we will sign him for $20M+ per year. I don't think that is going to happen, because of the franchise tag.

                        We have Von for $14M this year on the tag. We can tag him again in 2017 for around $18M. We could maybe even tag him again in 2018 for around $23M. So that's at least 2 seasons, maybe even 3 where he could be playing on the tag. That is one heck of a risk to take as a player, to not sign long term and risk injury for that long. It will be in Von's interest to sign a long term deal now and secure his financial future.

                        Given those amounts that we can have him for on the tag for the next 2 seasons, signing him for $20M+ doesn't make sense. There is no incentive for us to do that, and given Elway's history in contract negotiations you can guarantee he won't blink. Somewhere around the $17-18M mark makes a lot more sense. If Von really wants to hold out for 20+ then I am confident Elway will not give in to those demands and just franchise him instead. I think, at the deadline, Von will end up accepting that it's not worth the risk to hold out for 20+ and end up signing a more reasonable deal.

                        Remember, Suh got to free agency so his contract can be regarded as somewhat of an outlier, and isn't quite as relevant to Von's situation as some people tend to think. I think the JJ Watt and Justin Houston deals are much more relevant, as they were in very similar sitautions to Von.

                        Also, just a note, we will only need around $2M for our draft picks once you take into account the salaries that they will replace in the top 51 of players. We will need around $1.2M for the practice squad, plus another $2M minimum for emergencies, IMO.
                        Last edited by uknflfan; 03-18-2016, 06:29 AM.
                        2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by uknflfan View Post
                          A couple points I would make here:

                          1) I'm pretty sure your slate gets 'wiped clean' with regards to the weed issue if you are clean for a certain period of time. I could be wrong here, but I don't think Von will get a season suspension if he messes up again.

                          2) Your statements regarding Chandler Jones and Ray/Barrett indicate that you are vastly underestimating how good Von is.

                          For starters, Chandler Jones is not worthy of holding Von's jock. It is true that he would have commanded a lot next offseason, but let's not pretend that Belichick just let a player equivalent to Von Miller get away. As for Barrett and Ray, yes, the drop off in production would be huge. If Von walks, say goodbye to our elite defense. No way they come close to his production, or his impact on the game.
                          I'd argue that Von is the best in the league at his position. He can rush the passer, stop the run and cover down field. The funny thing is he has said in multiple interviews this season that he has been spending time with Harris, Talib & Roby to improve his pass coverage downfield. This is a special player and the only other guy who rushes the passer who is as special as Von is JJ Watt. Jones, Ray & Barrett are great players but they are not generational players. Von & Watt are generational players.

                          One thing I do disagree with some of the posts here is that Von even if he is at top QB money I think he is worth it if he can continue on the trajectory he is on now. This past season he was personally responsible for stopping 7+ points a game and in a few games he was responsible for us scoring 7+ points as well. Look at the SB strip sack, fumble recovery for a TD. That play alone was a 14 point swing. You always assume that the other team would have scored 7 and instead we did because of Von and Von alone. This is the same reason why a top 5-7 ball-hawking CB is worth over 9-10 mil a season. Not only can they stop points but they can put points on the board.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
                            I love Von Miller, he's been my favorite Bronco since he's been here. However, I think it is imperative that we draft his replacement this year in case we can't get him signed. I don't think we should give him 20 million per year over the next 5 or 6 years. In my opinion there is no one player worth that and there never will be. Why hamstring our cap for a half a decade just to overpay a guy to keep him? I know he is a top 5 pass rusher in the league, I know he had an incredible play-off run and we finally saw exactly what he can do when motivated. However, he has a knack for disappearing in games and has that off the field stuff hanging over his head. One more hit from a joint and he's done for a season probably, we really wanna pay 20 mill to take that chance? Theres a reason New England traded Chandler Jones, they were gonna have to re-sign him soon and there was no way they were giving him a 100 mill contract for 10-12 sacks a year. We are in the same boat with Von, if he were pushing 20 sacks per year and looked the way he did in the play-offs all the time then yeah, I'd consider it, but at this juncture we cannot hamstring our franchise for one guy. Does anyone thing Barrett or Ray would be that big of a drop-off production wise? If we do ink Von long term, it has to be more of an incentive based deal IMO, put something on the line that he has to work for every year. I know this isn't s popular response but it's common sense really. Unless u have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, no one is worth 20 million per year, those guys impact 50 plays per game, a stud defensive player maybe impacts 15-20.
                            Miller was released from the NFL's drug program before the start of last season. He's not in imminent danger of a mandatory year-long suspension. If he does get caught again he'll re-enter stage one again

                            I have to agree with others regarding Chandler Jones. While a good player and an unexpected trade he is not the equivalent of Miller hence the trade.

                            As far as Miller's long term outlook here, he wants to be here, Elway has indicated he wants Miller to remain, and Elway wants players who want to be here. At the same time, Elway has shown that the team will stick to their principles with player evaluation and cost. If Miller overvalues himself that could pose a problem for his future here but only time will tell.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ELWAY421 View Post
                              After mulling everything over in my head and listening to the local Denver radio stations, and reading plenty of articles on several sports related websites I have a new concern.

                              How in the world is Elway going to be able to re-sign Von this off-season? I think it's pretty clear we are in a cap situation, and I also think most of us know Von is gonna want to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.

                              I think the numbers are gonna be at least 20 to 21 million per season to re-sign Miller. So, we are gonna need around 6 million for the draft pool, I'm assuming we'll sign a couple of free agents, and need about 1 million for injuries and such during the season. We have a QB situation, which may have changed our upcoming draft plans outright.
                              We just restructured Ware which helps, and hopefully Clady to come. We've cut a few players, we really don't have a bunch of players left to cut to clear cap room.

                              Question is, if we can't re-sign Von before the season like we did in the past with DT, and Clady, will he be offended, and ultimately cause Denver to lose him? With the current cap situation, and holes to fill, how in the world is it possible to re-sign before the season? I personally feel if we don't re-sign him before the season, we WILL ultimately lose him because of it.

                              This is my concern dudes.
                              I don't think it'll be in the offseason, but he'll be resigned before the years end. They will work it in such a way so as to not hit our cap hard this year.
                              sigpic

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