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  • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
    That is a pretty over the tip and rather crude response and certainly not what I meant. Norwood is supposed to be the shifty fast guy on the team...that's his role. On that play he was sup posed to get the ball but from what I saw he didn't get separation from his man covering him. Lynch as a result threw the ball high...a go grab it type throw. IIRC there was not much of a jump. In addition Taylor, Brown or DT could have made that catch without issue...Norwood is just simply shorter.

    On the flip side of this Raymond came out and for the most part matched exactly what Norwood has done for us...in his 1st ever NFL start...

    On top of all of that I'd assume that Lynch likely has auch better rapport with Raymond as he'd have been the one running the scout team with Lynch...every QB needs someone who is familiar I'd go as far as to say Raymond is likely familiar to Lynch.

    So yes...Norwood has yet to wow me on either offense or PR so why not move on and see if our UDFA can step up and improve...he's already shown he is at the very least not a downgrade.
    I tried to add sarcasm and it landed the wrong way...my apology

    Who defined Norward as the shifty fast guy on the team? On the depth chart he is 3rd behind Sanders and Latimer.

    Lynch threw the ball high because he didn't have his feet set and it looked like he rushed it with a clean pocket. We have no idea whether or not Taylor, Brown or DT would have caught that pass - unless one of them was the target you do not know if they would have made the catch. From the highlights I watched that throw was wildly inaccurate, yet you expect Norwood to make the play.

    Raymond did fine and from his first game as a returner he appears to have more potential. Let's wait until he plays multiple games and has opportunities to make returns in different conditions. More returns will test his ability to be consistent.

    I understand that you dislike Norwood and that's fine. If he were a great player he would be higher on the depth chart. My point with the first comment was that you're expecting Norwood to deliver when Lynch threw an inaccurate pass. If you think Norwood should have caught the pass it fits your narrative that he's not a good receiver.

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    • Code:
      POS 	First 	            Second 	                Third 	Other
      WR 	Dem Thomas 	Bennie Fowler III 	[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Jordan Taylor[/COLOR][/B] 	Marlon Brown
      LT 	Russell Okung 	Ty Sambrailo 		
      LG 	Max Garcia 	Connor McGovern 		
      C 	Matt Paradis 	James Ferentz 		
      RG 	Ml Schofield 	Billy Turner 		
      RT 	D Stephenson 	Ty Sambrailo 		
      TE 	V Green 	Jeff Heuerman 	         A.J. Derby 	
      WR 	E Sanders 	Cody Latimer     	[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Jordan Norwood[/COLOR][/B] 	[B][COLOR="#FF0000"][COLOR="#FF0000"]Kalif Raymond[/COLOR][/COLOR][/B]
      RB 	D Booker   	Juwan Thompson       	Justin Forsett 	
      QB 	Trevor Siemian 	Paxton Lynch 	          Austin Davis 	
      FB 	Juwan Thompson
      This is on http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html . It's only a depth chart so of course it's not written in stone across the board. Also, Fowler was inactive last week. My gut feeling is that Norwood isn't cut any time soon because the WR position is pretty unsettled after #1/#2. I don't think we are going to be able to tell anything other than from looking at the inactive list and then who gets snaps during games.
      Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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      • Also I would think that Forsett becomes RB2 this Sunday unless Kubes gives up on using the FB.
        Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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        • Originally posted by listopencil View Post
          Code:
          POS 	First 	            Second 	                Third 	Other
          WR 	Dem Thomas 	Bennie Fowler III 	[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Jordan Taylor[/COLOR][/B] 	Marlon Brown
          LT 	Russell Okung 	Ty Sambrailo 		
          LG 	Max Garcia 	Connor McGovern 		
          C 	Matt Paradis 	James Ferentz 		
          RG 	Ml Schofield 	Billy Turner 		
          RT 	D Stephenson 	Ty Sambrailo 		
          TE 	V Green 	Jeff Heuerman 	         A.J. Derby 	
          WR 	E Sanders 	Cody Latimer     	[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Jordan Norwood[/COLOR][/B] 	[B][COLOR="#FF0000"][COLOR="#FF0000"]Kalif Raymond[/COLOR][/COLOR][/B]
          RB 	D Booker   	Juwan Thompson       	Justin Forsett 	
          QB 	Trevor Siemian 	Paxton Lynch 	          Austin Davis 	
          FB 	Juwan Thompson
          This is on http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html . It's only a depth chart so of course it's not written in stone across the board. Also, Fowler was inactive last week. My gut feeling is that Norwood isn't cut any time soon because the WR position is pretty unsettled after #1/#2. I don't think we are going to be able to tell anything other than from looking at the inactive list and then who gets snaps during games.
          Good point. Once we get past DT and Sanders nobody stands out, partly because of injuries - Fowler and Latimer have both been injured. Broncos signed Brown however he's learning the offense. Taylor has started to make some plays. Over that time Norwood has been healthy and knows the offense.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
            I tried to add sarcasm and it landed the wrong way...my apology

            Who defined Norward as the shifty fast guy on the team? On the depth chart he is 3rd behind Sanders and Latimer.

            Lynch threw the ball high because he didn't have his feet set and it looked like he rushed it with a clean pocket. We have no idea whether or not Taylor, Brown or DT would have caught that pass - unless one of them was the target you do not know if they would have made the catch. From the highlights I watched that throw was wildly inaccurate, yet you expect Norwood to make the play.

            Raymond did fine and from his first game as a returner he appears to have more potential. Let's wait until he plays multiple games and has opportunities to make returns in different conditions. More returns will test his ability to be consistent.

            I understand that you dislike Norwood and that's fine. If he were a great player he would be higher on the depth chart. My point with the first comment was that you're expecting Norwood to deliver when Lynch threw an inaccurate pass. If you think Norwood should have caught the pass it fits your narrative that he's not a good receiver.
            I think you will find I am really more in the middle here. first nearly every team tries to get a shifty guy or a fast guy for a returner...having someone like that opens more holes and hs a greater potential to score points...We have Norwood as our guy there and hence I expect him to be shifty...Also I heard Kubiak state that Norwood understands his role on this team as a slot guy....again that position has very similar traits to those of a return man...often why many are used in both roles.



            I created a GIF of the throw...and you will get no arguments from me that Lynch's footwork and his throw as a result were....awful. He is a rookie and hopefully in time he can improve. That all being said if it was Trevor or Lynch in there we need our WR's to help make plays. I also looked at Norwood's feet as the ball approached. He had one foot on the ground and tried to jump from one foot to make a one handed grab. I was also mistaken he had 1 perhaps 2 steps on his defender. So there was even less of a reason to not jump and try to make that play for a rookie QB. It also negates any excuse for Lynch to miss-throw that ball. I brought up the other two WR's as they are simply 3-4 inches taller than Norwood and a throw which is high like that (we've seen Trevor make passes like that as well) should, in theory, be easier for a WR who is taller and capable. DT & Taylor have shown as of late that they are both capable.

            So for me it is not just because I don't see Norwood as a long-term guy for this team it is that I think we simply have other options on our roster who can fill that general role who are better miss-match targets for both of our QB's who need all the help they can get.

            Changing directions a bit here. I can agree to see how Raymond works out in a second game but I also think we need to see how he can do as an offensive target.I believe that while Raymond is 5ft9 his top end speed and the fact that he can sustain that (with his track background) is of more benefit to this team and should allow us to field a different type of target. If that is the case then I see no need to keep Norwood on the roster.

            I could see us looking to promote Peko or Watson perhaps from our PS.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
              Good point. Once we get past DT and Sanders nobody stands out, partly because of injuries - Fowler and Latimer have both been injured. Broncos signed Brown however he's learning the offense. Taylor has started to make some plays. Over that time Norwood has been healthy and knows the offense.
              That is what I am not 100% on. Taylor has made plays yet either he is not involved in the offense more than he has in the past or he just isn't getting open when he is being involved more...I havent had the time to review % of snaps

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              • I just want to know why we are carrying 8 receivers and 2 long snappers...
                Let's cut some dead weight (Ahem - Norwood)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                  I think you will find I am really more in the middle here. first nearly every team tries to get a shifty guy or a fast guy for a returner...having someone like that opens more holes and hs a greater potential to score points...We have Norwood as our guy there and hence I expect him to be shifty...Also I heard Kubiak state that Norwood understands his role on this team as a slot guy....again that position has very similar traits to those of a return man...often why many are used in both roles.



                  I created a GIF of the throw...and you will get no arguments from me that Lynch's footwork and his throw as a result were....awful. He is a rookie and hopefully in time he can improve. That all being said if it was Trevor or Lynch in there we need our WR's to help make plays. I also looked at Norwood's feet as the ball approached. He had one foot on the ground and tried to jump from one foot to make a one handed grab. I was also mistaken he had 1 perhaps 2 steps on his defender. So there was even less of a reason to not jump and try to make that play for a rookie QB. It also negates any excuse for Lynch to miss-throw that ball. I brought up the other two WR's as they are simply 3-4 inches taller than Norwood and a throw which is high like that (we've seen Trevor make passes like that as well) should, in theory, be easier for a WR who is taller and capable. DT & Taylor have shown as of late that they are both capable.

                  So for me it is not just because I don't see Norwood as a long-term guy for this team it is that I think we simply have other options on our roster who can fill that general role who are better miss-match targets for both of our QB's who need all the help they can get.

                  Changing directions a bit here. I can agree to see how Raymond works out in a second game but I also think we need to see how he can do as an offensive target.I believe that while Raymond is 5ft9 his top end speed and the fact that he can sustain that (with his track background) is of more benefit to this team and should allow us to field a different type of target. If that is the case then I see no need to keep Norwood on the roster.

                  I could see us looking to promote Peko or Watson perhaps from our PS.
                  I would actually compare a punt returner more to a zone running back than a slot receiver, because they need to be able to understand how the blocking is supposed to set up, read how it actually is setting up, be able to see the crease and explode through it. The hole may not set up where you expect it to, so you have to search it out. I would compare it to a slotback in that you need to be able to catch the ball in traffic.

                  I'd like for them to promote Peko, I'd like to see what he can do. And yeah, I think if Raymond has a good second game, and/or they need a roster spot that Norwood could be the player on the bubble.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Broncodoodle View Post
                    I just want to know why we are carrying 8 receivers and 2 long snappers...
                    Let's cut some dead weight (Ahem - Norwood)
                    They're carrying 2 long snappers because the rookie is injured, and his contract status is too good to just get rid of. The other one is here temporarily.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                      They're carrying 2 long snappers because the rookie is injured, and his contract status is too good to just get rid of. The other one is here temporarily.
                      If the LS replacement does well I could see putting the injured guy on IR and clearing up a spot that way. The RB injuries have me nervous. Anderson, Janovich, Bibbs. I like the signing of Forsett because we really needed another RB on the active roster. How about putting our injured LS on IR and bringing up RB Watson from the PS? Then go sign the most promising RB we can find to our PS and go from there?

                      *upon edit: Watson can be activated for several games and not lose PS eligibility IIRC
                      Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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                      • Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                        If the LS replacement does well I could see putting the injured guy on IR and clearing up a spot that way. The RB injuries have me nervous. Anderson, Janovich, Bibbs. I like the signing of Forsett because we really needed another RB on the active roster. How about putting our injured LS on IR and bringing up RB Watson from the PS? Then go sign the most promising RB we can find to our PS and go from there?

                        *upon edit: Watson can be activated for several games and not lose PS eligibility IIRC
                        this I agree with....I like this option a lot.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                          If the LS replacement does well I could see putting the injured guy on IR and clearing up a spot that way. The RB injuries have me nervous. Anderson, Janovich, Bibbs. I like the signing of Forsett because we really needed another RB on the active roster. How about putting our injured LS on IR and bringing up RB Watson from the PS? Then go sign the most promising RB we can find to our PS and go from there?

                          *upon edit: Watson can be activated for several games and not lose PS eligibility IIRC
                          Others have said that he may not be ready yet. Not sure what Kubiak sees but its possible he doesn't know the playbook well enough to be the 3rd back. I'd love to see him too, he's a power back that can make holes and break tackles which works better with a line this poor, but as fans we don't see what goes on in practice.
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                          • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                            Others have said that he may not be ready yet. Not sure what Kubiak sees but its possible he doesn't know the playbook well enough to be the 3rd back. I'd love to see him too, he's a power back that can make holes and break tackles which works better with a line this poor, but as fans we don't see what goes on in practice.
                            Some players practise great and play poorly in games and others are the reverse. Either way we have very few RB options and frankly Forsett for all the praise Kubiak said about him has not played well this season. Hence why he's been cut twice. With each of these games down the stretch being so important even if he is not 100 percent up to speed he either can play football or he can't. So with the incredibly high WR count on our roster and two LS....why not make room for this young RB and simply see what he can do in game....

                            Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                            I would actually compare a punt returner more to a zone running back than a slot receiver, because they need to be able to understand how the blocking is supposed to set up, read how it actually is setting up, be able to see the crease and explode through it. The hole may not set up where you expect it to, so you have to search it out. I would compare it to a slotback in that you need to be able to catch the ball in traffic.

                            I'd like for them to promote Peko, I'd like to see what he can do. And yeah, I think if Raymond has a good second game, and/or they need a roster spot that Norwood could be the player on the bubble.
                            I understand your rationale for comparing a zoNE RB to a return man but a good number of these guys in the league are speed guys and many of them come from the WR pool.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                              I think you will find I am really more in the middle here. first nearly every team tries to get a shifty guy or a fast guy for a returner...having someone like that opens more holes and hs a greater potential to score points...We have Norwood as our guy there and hence I expect him to be shifty...Also I heard Kubiak state that Norwood understands his role on this team as a slot guy....again that position has very similar traits to those of a return man...often why many are used in both roles.



                              I created a GIF of the throw...and you will get no arguments from me that Lynch's footwork and his throw as a result were....awful. He is a rookie and hopefully in time he can improve. That all being said if it was Trevor or Lynch in there we need our WR's to help make plays. I also looked at Norwood's feet as the ball approached. He had one foot on the ground and tried to jump from one foot to make a one handed grab. I was also mistaken he had 1 perhaps 2 steps on his defender. So there was even less of a reason to not jump and try to make that play for a rookie QB. It also negates any excuse for Lynch to miss-throw that ball. I brought up the other two WR's as they are simply 3-4 inches taller than Norwood and a throw which is high like that (we've seen Trevor make passes like that as well) should, in theory, be easier for a WR who is taller and capable. DT & Taylor have shown as of late that they are both capable.

                              So for me it is not just because I don't see Norwood as a long-term guy for this team it is that I think we simply have other options on our roster who can fill that general role who are better miss-match targets for both of our QB's who need all the help they can get.

                              Changing directions a bit here. I can agree to see how Raymond works out in a second game but I also think we need to see how he can do as an offensive target.I believe that while Raymond is 5ft9 his top end speed and the fact that he can sustain that (with his track background) is of more benefit to this team and should allow us to field a different type of target. If that is the case then I see no need to keep Norwood on the roster.

                              I could see us looking to promote Peko or Watson perhaps from our PS.
                              Kubiak gets the advantage of seeing everything the receivers do in practice and obviously in games. Norwood could be one on the bubble. Kubiak might have seen him as a mostly consistent receiver that knows the offense.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                                Kubiak gets the advantage of seeing everything the receivers do in practice and obviously in games. Norwood could be one on the bubble. Kubiak might have seen him as a mostly consistent receiver that knows the offense.
                                Who cares what he does in practise. He could look like the next Jerry Rice in practise. At this point in Norwood's career IMO the practise potential card is gone. He can either play on gameday or he can't. More importantly can he play better on GameDay than the rookie Raymond...right now it doesn't look like he can. Which then leaves Raymond with auch better upside longterm for our team.

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