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Let's see more 3 WR sets - with Taylor

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  • #61
    He see's the pressure and knows where it's coming from, he's trying to stay in the pocket to make the throws. The O-line is missing on the protections, they said it in a interview one day in one of the other games. They had just talked about what to do if the saftey blitzs, and the O-line still screwed it up, it was right before half time of the Panthers Game.

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    • #62
      Maybe an 11 step drop to run from that o line too?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by listopencil View Post
        What do you think of Thomas and Taylor on the outside with Sanders in the slot?
        This might just be me, but isn't the slot receiver the one that can be most vulnerable to get hammered if the ball isn't place in the right spot, especially with a rookie QB. Sanders doesn't seem like he can take too many of those huge hits which is why someone like Gronk's size and height.
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        My new favorite Bronco - KJ Hamler Guy plays inspiring football!.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
          Siemian doesn't have the time or ability right now to go through multiple progressions. This means the passing plays will primarily go to the best two receivers on team. We don't have a passer like Manning who can spread the ball to everybody, instead we have a young QB who will lock onto his best option.

          As others stated execution is a huge part of it. Booker fumbles while trying to reach for a TD, Okung whiffs on a block causing a sack fumble, Norwood tips a ball up for a pick six. Last week Norwood doesn't drag his toes after a great pass by Siemian under pressure, DT drops a deep pass and another is called back on a penalty. This is just a handful of plays off the top of head that if the players make an easy play we're not even having this discussion right now.

          See these tables of "Time To Throw" which is a fairly new stat, these tables are from 2015 but I'd say they are still relevant.

          https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs...time-to-throw/

          Notice the four best QBs in the league last year are the quickest to release their throws. Looking at the Patriots, it seems that is why they use those big, tall TEs across the middle. They are easy to find, easier to throw to which can setup the occasional deep pass. I don't see that option in our offense. Hopefully AJ Derby can be that guy. I noticed a lot of 3rd and long plays against the Saints, someone like this can give us that short pass option.

          Something I found on AJ Derby. I didn't realize he was a former QB.
          http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/12...for-a-j-derby/
          Last edited by haciendadad; 11-14-2016, 08:08 PM. Reason: Added Derby article link
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          My new favorite Bronco - KJ Hamler Guy plays inspiring football!.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
            See these tables of "Time To Throw" which is a fairly new stat, these tables are from 2015 but I'd say they are still relevant.

            https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs...time-to-throw/

            Notice the four best QBs in the league last year are the quickest to release their throws. Looking at the Patriots, it seems that is why they use those big, tall TEs across the middle. They are easy to find, easier to throw to which can setup the occasional deep pass. I don't see that option in our offense. Hopefully AJ Derby can be that guy. I noticed a lot of 3rd and long plays against the Saints, someone like this can give us that short pass option.

            Something I found on AJ Derby. I didn't realize he was a former QB.
            http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/12...for-a-j-derby/
            Yeah, I had the fortune of watching him in the state championship game. My family often made a trip to the unidome this time of year.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
              This might just be me, but isn't the slot receiver the one that can be most vulnerable to get hammered if the ball isn't place in the right spot, especially with a rookie QB. Sanders doesn't seem like he can take too many of those huge hits which is why someone like Gronk's size and height.
              Depends on how you use him. Someone with Sanders' speed and body control could really open up the D. He would have the whole tree available to him.
              Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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              • #67
                Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
                This might just be me, but isn't the slot receiver the one that can be most vulnerable to get hammered if the ball isn't place in the right spot, especially with a rookie QB. Sanders doesn't seem like he can take too many of those huge hits which is why someone like Gronk's size and height.
                Slot receivers don't need to be big, they need to be shifty and quick (different than fast) and be able to get themselves open quickly. Welker was one of the best slot receivers in the last 20 years, he wasn't a big guy. Edelman is the best slot receiver right now, he's not a big guy.

                From the slot you're going to see a lot of quick slants, quick outs, wheel routes, as well as 3 yard crossing routes. The reason you see shallow crossing routes like that are because they're underneath the LBs zone drops and most defenses won't cover routes that shallow in zone. So against zone you're looking at them to run shallow, get into a window in the defense and catch the ball and gain YAC. Against man you're counting on them to quickly outrun their defender.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                  Slot receivers don't need to be big, they need to be shifty and quick (different than fast) and be able to get themselves open quickly. Welker was one of the best slot receivers in the last 20 years, he wasn't a big guy. Edelman is the best slot receiver right now, he's not a big guy.

                  From the slot you're going to see a lot of quick slants, quick outs, wheel routes, as well as 3 yard crossing routes. The reason you see shallow crossing routes like that are because they're underneath the LBs zone drops and most defenses won't cover routes that shallow in zone. So against zone you're looking at them to run shallow, get into a window in the defense and catch the ball and gain YAC. Against man you're counting on them to quickly outrun their defender.
                  I'm just thinking that if you line up Thomas and Taylor on the outside, Green on the LOS and Sanders in the slot, Booker in the backfield with Siemian...you should be able to threaten a Defense.
                  Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                    I'm just thinking that if you line up Thomas and Taylor on the outside, Green on the LOS and Sanders in the slot, Booker in the backfield with Siemian...you should be able to threaten a Defense.
                    It would be interesting to see teams cover that, they'd go nickel, I think they'd still keep the top 2 corners on Sanders and Thomas with the nickel back on Taylor, then a safety covering Green. So cover 1, safety shaded to the side Thomas and Sanders are on. Defense still has the advantage in the run game with 7 in the box (strong safety down covering Green) and the two LBs.

                    I'd like to see Green on the line, Sanders in the slot and Taylor off the line, outside on one side and Thomas isolated on the back side. Teams couldn't just bring the strong safety down to cover Green, or they'd have to go single coverage on either Sanders or Thomas. Or they'd go zone on the trips side and man to man on Thomas. This creates an advantage for the Broncos.

                    The other thing I'd like to see them do is Thomas isolated on one side, Green on the line, Taylor in the slot and Booker out wide on the trips with Sanders lined up in the backfield. This will almost ensure that you get a linebacker matched up on Sanders releasing out of the backfield. Again, it creates a mismatch for the Broncos...if the o-line can give the QB time.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                      It would be interesting to see teams cover that, they'd go nickel, I think they'd still keep the top 2 corners on Sanders and Thomas with the nickel back on Taylor, then a safety covering Green. So cover 1, safety shaded to the side Thomas and Sanders are on. Defense still has the advantage in the run game with 7 in the box (strong safety down covering Green) and the two LBs.

                      I'd like to see Green on the line, Sanders in the slot and Taylor off the line, outside on one side and Thomas isolated on the back side. Teams couldn't just bring the strong safety down to cover Green, or they'd have to go single coverage on either Sanders or Thomas. Or they'd go zone on the trips side and man to man on Thomas. This creates an advantage for the Broncos.

                      The other thing I'd like to see them do is Thomas isolated on one side, Green on the line, Taylor in the slot and Booker out wide on the trips with Sanders lined up in the backfield. This will almost ensure that you get a linebacker matched up on Sanders releasing out of the backfield. Again, it creates a mismatch for the Broncos...if the o-line can give the QB time.
                      I like that. Putting Sanders in the backfield is right out of Bill Walsh's thirteen part outline on how to dictate to defense using formations. That's five good targets for Trevor. Trips allows for Bunch Routes, too.
                      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                        I could never understand what coaches saw in Norwood myself. I know he did ok last year...maybe something is going on in practice...who knows.

                        I am all for giving Taylor more snaps myself. I do not see much more in him but imo Norwood has already shown what he can do while Taylor still is unknown.
                        Taylor's tough but seems a bit giddy, but Norwood needs to concentrate on returning punts and/or kicks while being implemeted on "O" to pick up short yardage first downs from the slot or flanker.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MDN1959 View Post
                          Taylor's tough but seems a bit giddy, but Norwood needs to concentrate on returning punts and/or kicks while being implemeted on "O" to pick up short yardage first downs from the slot or flanker.
                          For a tall, skinny guy Jordan seems to have surprising strength. He has good hands, and his TD catch at NO showed good body control and athleticism.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                            For a tall, skinny guy Jordan seems to have surprising strength. He has good hands, and his TD catch at NO showed good body control and athleticism.
                            If I may take that one step further he also showed he has the mental where-with-all to re-control the ball and alter his body on the way down to ensure a TD. - thought it was important to include intelligence in there..that is a big deal IMO. Most WR's have above average body control at the NFL level. The smarts to do what he did....not so common.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              I like that. Putting Sanders in the backfield is right out of Bill Walsh's thirteen part outline on how to dictate to defense using formations. That's five good targets for Trevor. Trips allows for Bunch Routes, too.
                              They did try that in a goal line situation and it went horribly. I think it was more of a wrong play at the wrong time kind of thing though.
                              Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                                It would be interesting to see teams cover that, they'd go nickel, I think they'd still keep the top 2 corners on Sanders and Thomas with the nickel back on Taylor, then a safety covering Green. So cover 1, safety shaded to the side Thomas and Sanders are on. Defense still has the advantage in the run game with 7 in the box (strong safety down covering Green) and the two LBs.

                                I'd like to see Green on the line, Sanders in the slot and Taylor off the line, outside on one side and Thomas isolated on the back side. Teams couldn't just bring the strong safety down to cover Green, or they'd have to go single coverage on either Sanders or Thomas. Or they'd go zone on the trips side and man to man on Thomas. This creates an advantage for the Broncos.

                                The other thing I'd like to see them do is Thomas isolated on one side, Green on the line, Taylor in the slot and Booker out wide on the trips with Sanders lined up in the backfield. This will almost ensure that you get a linebacker matched up on Sanders releasing out of the backfield. Again, it creates a mismatch for the Broncos...if the o-line can give the QB time.

                                This is what I was thinking but neglected to put in my post, and I should have. I was visualizing Sanders and Thomas on opposite ends of the LOS.
                                Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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