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  • #31
    Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
    Sure there are situations where it can happen faster, but with a new o-line it normally takes until 7-8 games into the season to get a solid cohesive unit. So we may not know till midyear if we need to blow it all up again.
    I don't think they should blow it all up again, I think if you get a solid LT, a real solid one that would bring a lot of stability to the unit. Schofield has taken some big steps from last year to this year, he's still not great but he's better than last year. I think with a full offseason as the starting RG, he could actually be a good player. Stephenson is still a lock, I know he's played some guard, I wonder if he might be better at LG? But he's not a bad RT.

    For continuity sake let's keep him at RT, so you've got your C, RG and RT all currently in place going forward. I'm not ready to give up on Garcia, he's a young player, it takes time, and you have McGovern, so one of them will likely be LG. So you're going to likely have the same guys in 4 spots. Add in a high quality LT and that solidifies the line. Then you also still need some depth.

    As I've previously said, I'd start to transition the line to being bigger, not massively, but I'd start trying to get them into the315-320 range.

    Looking at it in an analytical way, the Broncos o-line is very very young on the inside, this is probably part of the reason for the inconsistency. And in thinking about it, replacing 4 players isn't a good recipe for success from year to year.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 15thebeast View Post
      If we somehow manage to sign Zeitler and Warford this offseason and draft a tackle or 2 early in the draft then that will go a long way towards fixing it
      Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
      See I disagree. I think we can make huge strides in one offseason. our primary target should be a veteran LT and we should be drafting one as well. Paradis will work for now and then we need to continental to target another guard....I would think that at least one of the current guards could at least step up with proper coaching and competition....then all we need to do is focus on depth.....

      So in total your likely looking at 2 or 3 picks here. At the same time though we really haven't drafted a top OT or OG in.....6 plus years?
      Yes, we can make progress in the offseason, but there's still some things that will take time. First, we need to sign a couple of good FA OLs. This is easier said than done because there's 25 or so other teams that want to do the same thing.

      Drafting OL should be a priority. However, our last 2 high picks (Ty and Schofield) haven't upgraded our line so far. This brings up two points. First, you have to make good picks. Second, they generally take some time to develop. Maybe these guys will improve. Maybe not.

      There is a third option and that is to trade for quality OL. When we built our best OL ever, we traded high picks for both Zimmerman and Tony Jones.

      The only rookie OL that I can remember in Bronco history that really made an impact right away was Ryan Clady. A few others have been OK as rookies. But we've had far far more rookie OLs that struggled. And it's even tougher now as college offenses are mostly spread and not pro, resulting in fewer OL ready to play in the NFL.

      I'm not saying we can't improve or shouldn't start rebuilding an OL this offseason, only that it will take more than a year to get to where we want to be, even if it's Elway's #1 priority.

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      • #33
        Personally I think the talent level of the o-line is not the issue. It is coaching, schemes or chemistry that is limiting the results. Obviously could (and should ) be improved but I think the overall talent is good. Just not performing.

        Despite the criticisms I think the Broncos have a good pipeline of young o-line talent. Working with a pool of Sambraillo, Paradis, Garcia, Schofield, McGovern and Garcia is a nice start. Perhaps even add Stephenson at 28 years old to that list.

        Okung started solid but has dropped off. Injury? Whatever the reason I find it difficult to see him being kept with a big pay raise.

        O-line needs one free agent stud ( OT Khalil/ Remmers, ?) and maybe another early (2nd rd ?) draft pick to augment the pool they are working with and the o-line will be much better. IMO.

        My concern remains more about :what happens this year though? No mid season heroes are stepping into the locker room. Broncos have to find a way to improve with they have now.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
          So many colleges ( just about all of them) are running zone systems, so you should be able to find young blockers who are a little bigger who have experience in it. However, many colleges aren't teaching good line techniques, in fact a lot are horrible. I would start looking to the colleges that run a more standard offense (Alabama and Michigan come to mind) they may not have as much experience in the zone plays, but they will have played in a pro style offense and they will play better technique than most spread schools.

          And since I'm openly advocating for them bringing Dave Magazu back, I would go away from a 75-100% zone blocked running game (which is what I think they'd ideally like right now) to more of a blended running game that Magazu uses.
          I 100% agree with you Butler, due to the chop block now illegal, which was a staple in Kubes O,
          David Magazu would be huge upgrade to what we currently have coaching the Oline.
          Watching this O is just plain awful, just no other way you can sugar coat it.
          And to take it one step further, I think Paxton with his scrabbling ability would do better than Trevor.
          This Oline is bad, only Russel Wilson, Tyrod Taylor type QB would help with they're elusiveness. In which Paxton Is more than Trevor.
          I know Paxton is still learning to play pro style QB, but I think Kubes could get a handful of plays that Paxton runs well and build on those plays with different variations of those handful of plays. Which in turn would help out the run game, plus we could mix in a few spread option plays, kind of like what we did with Tebow.
          At this point, what do we have to lose!!
          lol

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          • #35
            I think rebuilding the broncos O Line will not happen in one offseason and it would be bad to just give big money to FA's.... San Diego has tried that recently and it hasn't worked for them.

            Broncos need to draft and develop their own guys because we can talk all we want about sighing top O line in free agency and being set but there are a lot more teams out their willing to overpay, Elway is not that type of GM.

            Broncos need to invest high draft picks (not late 2nd and 3rd, more like 1st round) into the O Line... Dallas has set the blueprint for building a dominate line and broncos need to follow that same plan... invest heavily early in the draft and have a top o line for the next 10yrs.
            sigpic
            "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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            • #36
              The dilemma in today's NFL is that signing free agents is expensive, but draft picks take 2-3 years to develop and then you get 1 good season before the player becomes a free agent. If you look at the Raiders OL that just blew up our front seven, that OL was built through free agency. LT Donald Penn, LG Kelechi Osemele, C Rodney Hudson and RT Austin Howard. They drafted their RG Gabe Jackson and RT Menelik Watson who rotates with Howard. Osemele and Hudson were big investments. Penn is making Okung/Stephenson money.
              sigpic

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              • #37
                In the offseason, Okung may not be brought back if he doesn't improve. If they don't bring him back, and can't get a veteran (they may revisit the Thomas and Staley trade market in the off-season, and if they don't get anywhere with that, Matt Kalil of the Vikings is the best FA LT), they may be able to get Alabama's Cam Robinson in the first round.

                As for G, I would put McGovern at LG, and have Garcia and Schofield compete for RG. Then, I would also get rid of Sambrailo, and I would also draft another OL for competition purposes in the later rounds.

                My ideal 2017 line:

                LT: Cam Robinson
                LG: Conner McGovern
                C: Matt Paradis
                RG: Max Garcia
                RT: Donald Stephenson or FA (maybe Riley Reiff of the Lions)

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                • #38
                  Schlereth and Steve Young were on NFL Live and said that we should be putting Trevor in the shotgun more to help him beat this horrible Oline because it's not doing him any favors. They also said it's time to take more shots down the field because these throws short of the sticks is killing the offense and there's no way we beat the Saints that way.

                  They also said with the injury to Talib and Wolfe, we might be in for a long day if we can't score, obviously, which is why they said to use more of a spread offense, boots, rollouts, play action. Just saying what they said.
                  Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                    Schlereth and Steve Young were on NFL Live and said that we should be putting Trevor in the shotgun more to help him beat this horrible Oline because it's not doing him any favors. They also said it's time to take more shots down the field because these throws short of the sticks is killing the offense and there's no way we beat the Saints that way.

                    They also said with the injury to Talib and Wolfe, we might be in for a long day if we can't score, obviously, which is why they said to use more of a spread offense, boots, rollouts, play action. Just saying what they said.
                    The lack of shots down field aren't fully on the coaching staff, there has been times where Siemian seems eager to take the short dump off pass no matter what.

                    Shotgun is okay, but I'd also like to see them move the pocket, do some rollout passing, sprint out. etc. If you move the pocket the LBs have to move with it and it gives receivers a chance to find holes behind them.

                    I think if the Broncos lose and the offense plays poorly this could be the last chance for Siemian, at least for now. Fair or not, whether it's his fault or the blame lies elsewhere, I think the Broncos might be inclined to go to Lynch after the bye week if they can't get the offense going.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                      The lack of shots down field aren't fully on the coaching staff, there has been times where Siemian seems eager to take the short dump off pass no matter what.

                      Shotgun is okay, but I'd also like to see them move the pocket, do some rollout passing, sprint out. etc. If you move the pocket the LBs have to move with it and it gives receivers a chance to find holes behind them.

                      I think if the Broncos lose and the offense plays poorly this could be the last chance for Siemian, at least for now. Fair or not, whether it's his fault or the blame lies elsewhere, I think the Broncos might be inclined to go to Lynch after the bye week if they can't get the offense going.
                      I agree. All Trevor's doing is dropping back and throwing dump offs for the most part. That's what they were saying too. Move the pocket - roll out, boots, do something different than what they're calling. Not sure why they haven't. He doesn't seem to even try to move lately. He seems gun shy. If he's not getting it done, time for a change.
                      Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                        The dilemma in today's NFL is that signing free agents is expensive, but draft picks take 2-3 years to develop and then you get 1 good season before the player becomes a free agent. If you look at the Raiders OL that just blew up our front seven, that OL was built through free agency. LT Donald Penn, LG Kelechi Osemele, C Rodney Hudson and RT Austin Howard. They drafted their RG Gabe Jackson and RT Menelik Watson who rotates with Howard. Osemele and Hudson were big investments. Penn is making Okung/Stephenson money.
                        With our history over recent year developing defensive players from late draft picks or college free agents (Trev, Jackson, Harris, Marshall and Barrett) it would make sense for us to invest more of the money we have to spend in free agency on offence especially the line as us trying to develop players isn't working out that great in my opinion

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JBBronco1 View Post
                          In the offseason, Okung may not be brought back if he doesn't improve. If they don't bring him back, and can't get a veteran (they may revisit the Thomas and Staley trade market in the off-season, and if they don't get anywhere with that, Matt Kalil of the Vikings is the best FA LT), they may be able to get Alabama's Cam Robinson in the first round.

                          As for G, I would put McGovern at LG, and have Garcia and Schofield compete for RG. Then, I would also get rid of Sambrailo, and I would also draft another OL for competition purposes in the later rounds.

                          My ideal 2017 line:

                          LT: Cam Robinson
                          LG: Conner McGovern
                          C: Matt Paradis
                          RG: Max Garcia
                          RT: Donald Stephenson or FA (maybe Riley Reiff of the Lions)
                          By and large unless others here have seen things I have missed Schofield from what I can tell has played better than Garcia. On top of that we are making some pretty steep leaps that McGovern is a walking at either Guard spots. Realistically I'd think the recent waiver wire pickup is likely the better guard. Thus leaving the real competition between Garcia and Schofield. Again based on what I have seen I'd think that Garcia would then windup being a backup. I also noted that Day was playing some guard in PS. I am wondering if they are planning on having him compete there as well....

                          At the end of the day with the crazy penalties Okung is getting called for I don't see him being our answer at LT. So perhaps a draft day or off season trade for a vet LT. Then I think we need to draft one who can develop behind that veteran player. Then it becomes a wide open competition at Guard (both) and see who wins.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                            The dilemma in today's NFL is that signing free agents is expensive, but draft picks take 2-3 years to develop and then you get 1 good season before the player becomes a free agent. If you look at the Raiders OL that just blew up our front seven, that OL was built through free agency. LT Donald Penn, LG Kelechi Osemele, C Rodney Hudson and RT Austin Howard. They drafted their RG Gabe Jackson and RT Menelik Watson who rotates with Howard. Osemele and Hudson were big investments. Penn is making Okung/Stephenson money.
                            While I agree they beat us there they also had 6 lineman in a fair amount so we didn't beat them like a drum. This was a game plan adjustment on their part....so if that worked for them where was our 6th lineman? Where were our major adjustments?

                            As much as our line needs revamping we still could modify our game plans and approach to help and win games.

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                            • #44
                              By and large unless others here have seen things I have missed Schofield from what I can tell has played better than Garcia. On top of that we are making some pretty steep leaps that McGovern is a walking at either Guard spots. Realistically I'd think the recent waiver wire pickup is likely the better guard. Thus leaving the real competition between Garcia and Schofield. Again based on what I have seen I'd think that Garcia would then windup being a backup. I also noted that Day was playing some guard in PS. I am wondering if they are planning on having him compete there as well....
                              From what I have heard, Garcia may be a better fit at RG than at LG. And as for the waiver wire player being better than McGovern (Billy Turner), I doubt it. He was terrible in Miami, grading out as one of the worst linemen in the league.

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                              • #45
                                I'm not going to beat around the bush. Our Oline stinks. As great as he's been, Elway has not made very good moves or drafted well for this position group. Who wouldn't take the Oline in Dallas? They're making a rookie QB and RB look like pro bowlers. It's going to take a full commitment for a few years to significantly improve the Oline. The greatest coach in the world couldn't help this current group of stiffs.
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