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Solutions next year for O-line and D-line

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  • #46
    Originally posted by qbronco View Post
    I'm not going to beat around the bush. Our Oline stinks. As great as he's been, Elway has not made very good moves or drafted well for this position group. Who wouldn't take the Oline in Dallas? They're making a rookie QB and RB look like pro bowlers. It's going to take a full commitment for a few years to significantly improve the Oline. The greatest coach in the world couldn't help this current group of stiffs.
    It's hitting on players they way they did, Smith was very raw when they invested a high 1st in him and I don't think anyone could of imagined he'd turn out to be this good, Fredrick was considered a reach when they selected him At the end of the first, Martin came in and has played like a all pro since day 1 which is unheard of and Collins who did have a high draft grade but went undrafted has played to a high level when healthy.

    The problem we have is we've never been that good at drafting o-lineman high or low, I think we've got to ditch a lot of the dead weight again, invest plenty of money in FA again, like a lot of people on here have said bring back Dave Magazu, tweak the scheme we have in place now, bring in a scout with a proven track record draft lineman to help elway then we can start investing high picks in lineman

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
      I think Denver needs to start looking for bigger linemen. I know the old zone mystique of light quick players, but these days most players have run zone in either high school or college, and it's getting to the point where guys who are 315-325 pounds can usually move well enough to run in the zone system. We'll never see the 350 pound road graders in Denver, but I think getting to that 320 pound line, across the board, is where they need to be.

      Then I'd call the Browns about Joe Thomas, chances are it would go nowhere but I'd want to see if I could get that done. Then I'd be working the phones to capable free agents, I would spend decent money for starting calibre linemen.

      Finally, assuming the Bears staff is let go and John Fox doesn't get another job right away, I'd call Dave Magazu. He's a great o-line coach, and Denver should do everything they can to bring him back.
      Size may eventually come into play, but footwork and ability to make both angle blocks and zone blocks is more important. The rushing attack needs to use equal amounts of zone, angle and influence, which can't be used unless there is plenty of angle.

      The right side of an O-Line must be able to block down consistently and the Left Guard must be able to pull to the opposite TE hole and get there before the RB. RG must be able to pull to the opposite T hole. They all should cover the ball carrier on each play.

      Defensive fronts that only have to deal with zone just flow and fill in one direction. Having equal parts of zone and angle can prolong their reads and victimize them with misdirection. I agree with the idea of getting Dave Magazu back. He used both zone and angle and is the master of influence.
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • #48
        Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
        I agree. All Trevor's doing is dropping back and throwing dump offs for the most part. That's what they were saying too. Move the pocket - roll out, boots, do something different than what they're calling. Not sure why they haven't. He doesn't seem to even try to move lately. He seems gun shy. If he's not getting it done, time for a change.
        QB can't Boot from Gun as per post #38.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • #49
          Originally posted by samparnell View Post
          Size may eventually come into play, but footwork and ability to make both angle blocks and zone blocks is more important. The rushing attack needs to use equal amounts of zone, angle and influence, which can't be used unless there is plenty of angle.

          The right side of an O-Line must be able to block down consistently and the Left Guard must be able to pull to the opposite TE hole and get there before the RB. RG must be able to pull to the opposite T hole. They all should cover the ball carrier on each play.

          Defensive fronts that only have to deal with zone just flow and fill in one direction. Having equal parts of zone and angle can prolong their reads and victimize them with misdirection. I agree with the idea of getting Dave Magazu back. He used both zone and angle and is the master of influence.
          I learn so much from your posts and from Butler By'Note's as well.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            QB can't Boot from Gun as per post #38.
            Didn't mean boots from the gun. They said more shotgun plays, more boots and rollouts on others..,anything to keep the pocket from collapsing. Plays to move the pocket.
            Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Bterres105 View Post
              I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this because we have the #1 rated center by pff.

              My problem with Paradis is that although, he sustains his blocks, he gets pushed back at the line a lot. Also, how well is he communicating with the other offensive linemen? Are Garcia's missed blocks due miscommunication or because Garcia is just unaware of who he's supposed to block?
              shows what those rankings are worth....JD Walton was also ranked #1 by them...where is he now? Not saying Paradis is bad, I actually like his potential but...#1? how does that happen??
              Last edited by broncos SB2010; 11-11-2016, 08:05 PM.
              sigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                shows what those rankings are worth....JD Walton was also ranked #1 by them...where is he now? Not saying Paradis is bad, I actually like his potential but...#1? how does that happen??
                Agreed.Paradis has some good parts to his game but all too often on 3rd and short run plays I see him get rag dolled by a much larger NT on a run play and we are forced to punt.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by AussieBronco76 View Post
                  Agreed.Paradis has some good parts to his game but all too often on 3rd and short run plays I see him get rag dolled by a much larger NT on a run play and we are forced to punt.
                  That's been true of the Broncos offensive line anytime they've run exclusively zone plays. The problem with zone running in short yardage situations is that zone running is about influencing the defense making them move one way and then the line breaking off double teams and selling blocks to make the defense wrong. However in short yardage situations it's about brute strength. Defenses will go to 5 down linemen and big in the middle and it becomes the offensive 5 trying to move those defensive 5 enough to create a hole and the fullback taking out the linebacker long enough to get the yardage.

                  Zone running is not conducive to short yardage. That's yet another reason I'd like to see the Broncos bring back Dave Magazu and go with a blended running game.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                    That's been true of the Broncos offensive line anytime they've run exclusively zone plays. The problem with zone running in short yardage situations is that zone running is about influencing the defense making them move one way and then the line breaking off double teams and selling blocks to make the defense wrong. However in short yardage situations it's about brute strength. Defenses will go to 5 down linemen and big in the middle and it becomes the offensive 5 trying to move those defensive 5 enough to create a hole and the fullback taking out the linebacker long enough to get the yardage.

                    Zone running is not conducive to short yardage. That's yet another reason I'd like to see the Broncos bring back Dave Magazu and go with a blended running game.
                    I agree. And if you still insist on running zone blocking on 3rd and 1, spread it out or get highly talented big and strong OL that can do both, like Zimmerman and Tony Jones.
                    Last edited by lvbronx; 11-12-2016, 01:22 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
                      I agree. And if you still insist on running zone blocking on 3rd and 1, spread it out or get highly talented big and strong OL that can do both, like Zimmerman and Tony Jones.
                      Finding lineman who can do both, personally on 3rd and 1s I'd like to see the bootleg and some play action

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                        That's been true of the Broncos offensive line anytime they've run exclusively zone plays. The problem with zone running in short yardage situations is that zone running is about influencing the defense making them move one way and then the line breaking off double teams and selling blocks to make the defense wrong. However in short yardage situations it's about brute strength. Defenses will go to 5 down linemen and big in the middle and it becomes the offensive 5 trying to move those defensive 5 enough to create a hole and the fullback taking out the linebacker long enough to get the yardage.

                        Zone running is not conducive to short yardage. That's yet another reason I'd like to see the Broncos bring back Dave Magazu and go with a blended running game.
                        One thing I have not been able to find is if the zone scheme has ever been run with 6 lineman...if so why not move to that sort of personel and see how we do.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          That's been true of the Broncos offensive line anytime they've run exclusively zone plays. The problem with zone running in short yardage situations is that zone running is about influencing the defense making them move one way and then the line breaking off double teams and selling blocks to make the defense wrong. However in short yardage situations it's about brute strength. Defenses will go to 5 down linemen and big in the middle and it becomes the offensive 5 trying to move those defensive 5 enough to create a hole and the fullback taking out the linebacker long enough to get the yardage.

                          Zone running is not conducive to short yardage. That's yet another reason I'd like to see the Broncos bring back Dave Magazu and go with a blended running game.
                          In a rushing attack that has equal parts of zone and angle blocking, questions about the Center position: can he drive block and get some movement; can he down block a 1/2/3 tech who was covering a pulling Guard; can he handle a 0 tech when facing an odd front? Those are concerns that have caused some to wonder about Matt Paradis' effectiveness in the ongoing process of revamping the O-Line.

                          Denver's current Zone Series seems more complex than the zone plays run when Magazu was coaching the O-Line. Recollection is that he used less release to the second level. Because he used angle and zone equally, sometimes he would use back side zone steps to influence and create an unblocked hole. Against an aggressive DE/OLB, he would have the back side T set up in pass protection to eliminate back side pursuit on a run play.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                          • #58
                            I would like to see improvement start as early as say, tomorrow.

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                            • #59
                              I have a solution this year for the dline play taylor and kilgo at dt more try more of williams at de and less of crick. Or no crick
                              sigpic
                              oakland raders gm
                              latavis murray trade bait

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                                I have a solution this year for the dline play taylor and kilgo at dt more try more of williams at de and less of crick. Or no crick
                                Isn't taylor on IR?
                                Last edited by Bterres105; 11-12-2016, 12:21 PM.

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