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Juwan Vs Ronnie Hillman

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  • #16
    Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
    It would be great if Green was as good as Daniels or Tamme. But, he isn't. And we have many, many years of evidence.
    As good as Daniels or Tamme at what, exactly?
    Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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    • #17
      Originally posted by listopencil View Post
      As good as Daniels or Tamme at what, exactly?
      At playing the position of Tight End.

      Saying that Green is a great blocking tight end, over and over on a Message Board, doesn't necessarily make it so. Frankly, I'd rather see the Broncos use a 6th Offensive lineman, a la the Raiders. As to his abilities as a receiver, all you have to do is to compare Green's stats this season to Tamme and Daniels, in any season. Green has been given a HUGE opportunity to play for a Tight End-centric coach. A coach who Traded a valuable Draft pick to the Patriots a few weeks ago for a Tight End. A coach who Drafted Heuerman with the full intention of making him the starter. So, I don't believe I'm alone in my assessment of Green.

      But my point was more specific to the incessant calls from fans that Thompson get more playing time.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
        It would be great if Green was as good as Daniels or Tamme. But, he isn't. And we have many, many years of evidence.
        Green like Thompson is an excellent blocker. So Imo we are seeing both of these guys fall victim to the fact that they are composting for a poor OL.

        Green- when given the opportunity has done well.

        As for Thompson I just think he has not been given an opportunity to prove himself. Where as Hillman has and his YPC stats were awful and the speed which he has never really allowed him to make guys miss. He gets arm tackled far too often

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        • #19
          Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
          At playing the position of Tight End.

          Saying that Green is a great blocking tight end, over and over on a Message Board, doesn't necessarily make it so. Frankly, I'd rather see the Broncos use a 6th Offensive lineman, a la the Raiders. As to his abilities as a receiver, all you have to do is to compare Green's stats this season to Tamme and Daniels, in any season. Green has been given a HUGE opportunity to play for a Tight End-centric coach. A coach who Traded a valuable Draft pick to the Patriots a few weeks ago for a Tight End. A coach who Drafted Heuerman with the full intention of making him the starter. So, I don't believe I'm alone in my assessment of Green.

          But my point was more specific to the incessant calls from fans that Thompson get more playing time.

          Sure, saying he's a great blocking TE on a message board has nothing to do with how he actually performs. People are actually complimenting his blocking skill on a message board...because they see him blocking well when he plays. It's just that simple. And you shoot your argument down when you point out that a TE-centric coach is trying to acquire talent at the position.Why wouldn't he want more than one talented TE? That's just silly. And, no, comparing stats performing in different Offenses surrounded by different players is not 'all you have to do.' All you have to do is watch him play.
          Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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          • #20
            Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
            At playing the position of Tight End.

            Saying that Green is a great blocking tight end, over and over on a Message Board, doesn't necessarily make it so. Frankly, I'd rather see the Broncos use a 6th Offensive lineman, a la the Raiders. As to his abilities as a receiver, all you have to do is to compare Green's stats this season to Tamme and Daniels, in any season. Green has been given a HUGE opportunity to play for a Tight End-centric coach. A coach who Traded a valuable Draft pick to the Patriots a few weeks ago for a Tight End. A coach who Drafted Heuerman with the full intention of making him the starter. So, I don't believe I'm alone in my assessment of Green.

            But my point was more specific to the incessant calls from fans that Thompson get more playing time.
            Virgil Green has caught a higher percentage of his targets than Emmanuel Sanders and the same as DT. What do you expect him to do? Throw the ball to himself?

            NFL TEs who can block 0 techs are not that common. It's normal to say that a TE who can do that is a great blocker. I have no idea what you know about blocking, but you can take my word for it, Virgil is a great blocker.

            P.S. If you have a sixth O-Lineman in, he'll be eligible whether he's on or off. Do you plan on throwing passes to him? Do you think the sixth O-Lineman would be as good a receiver as Virgil Green? Which specific O-Lineman do we have that you have in mind, and do you think he would be a better blocker from the End/ Wing/Slot/FB position than Virgil?
            Last edited by samparnell; 11-25-2016, 04:27 PM. Reason: post scriptum
            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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            • #21
              Originally posted by listopencil View Post
              Sure, saying he's a great blocking TE on a message board has nothing to do with how he actually performs. People are actually complimenting his blocking skill on a message board...because they see him blocking well when he plays. It's just that simple. And you shoot your argument down when you point out that a TE-centric coach is trying to acquire talent at the position.Why wouldn't he want more than one talented TE? That's just silly. And, no, comparing stats performing in different Offenses surrounded by different players is not 'all you have to do.' All you have to do is watch him play.
              I have no idea why Virgil isn't targeted more. It may have to with the difficulty in catching passes when blocking front seven defenders at the same time. He has always caught a high percentage of his targets. DBs are afraid of him when he catches a pass in the Secondary because he has run over a number of them. His blocking has been excellent since he was a rookie in 2011.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • #22
                Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                Virgil Green has caught a higher percentage of his targets than Emmanuel Sanders and the same as DT. What do you expect him to do? Throw the ball to himself?

                NFL TEs who can block 0 techs are not that common. It's normal to say that a TE who can do that is a great blocker. I have no idea what you know about blocking, but you can take my word for it, Virgil is a great blocker.
                Why do you think that Virgil doesn't get the looks/targets?
                He has had plenty of opportunity over the years and with different QBs. This year he has went out on routes plenty, the last game he was clearly open at least a couple of times but Trevor didn't get him the ball. When he does get the ball he runs hard and has a great stiff arm. It seems every year I am expecting him to "break out" and rack up the catches/yardage but it never seems to happen.

                Edit ... I wrote this while you apparently commented about this.
                Last edited by brianmcfarlane; 11-25-2016, 04:21 PM.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
                  Why do you think that Virgil doesn't get the looks/targets?
                  He has had plenty of opportunity over the years and with different QBs. This year he has went out on routes plenty, the last game he was clearly open at least a couple of times but Trevor didn't get him the ball. When he does get the ball he runs hard and has a great stiff arm. It seems every year I am expecting him to "break out" and rack up the catches/yardage but it never seems to happen.
                  I do not know. He has great hands and picks up yards after the catch.
                  "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                    I have no idea why Virgil isn't targeted more. It may have to with the difficulty in catching passes when blocking front seven defenders at the same time. He has always caught a high percentage of his targets. DBs are afraid of him when he catches a pass in the Secondary because he has run over a number of them. His blocking has been excellent since he was a rookie in 2011.
                    I'm seeing Defenses crowd near the LOS a lot. Not on the LOS-I mean within three to five yards of it. Our run blocking isn't good enough to take advantage of them being out of position, and our passing O isn't consistent enough to to make plays to beat it. So part of it is Siemian, part of it is the O-Line, part of it is Kubiak not finding something that works. But sending Green out in a pattern when Okung is getting beat like a drum isn't going to work. And it's not like it looks pretty over on the other side either.
                    Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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                    • #25
                      Juwan tends to run to darkness - still

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                      • #26
                        Eh we needed Hillman for depth but I doubt he'd start even if he was signed for us, you have to remember he was beat out by Booker and CJ in the preseason. When the offensive line has issues he doesn't shine as I've noticed.
                        Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                          Eh we needed Hillman for depth but I doubt he'd start even if he was signed for us, you have to remember he was beat out by Booker and CJ in the preseason. When the offensive line has issues he doesn't shine as I've noticed.
                          Right and when an OL has issues one way of trying to overcome that is a lateral or a quick screen toss to the outside and hope for good YAC. A physical player like Juwan or even Booker and CJ are all good options to lean in and hit the LB's or DB's hard when they try and tackle them. So as I've said I am a little surprised to have not seen at least a few carries from Juwan if but for no other reason than to see how he has progressed and if he can earn more time.

                          In some respects I see this as a similar situation to what Kubiak did to motivate CJ earlier. Booker had some good plays and CJ was not quite as good as he has been. Kubiak said he was going to play Booker more and he did...yet CJ stepped up his game and played very well. So I'd like to see Juwan used like that to see if either of the 3 backs can rise to the ocasion and start separating themselves from the pack.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                            Right and when an OL has issues one way of trying to overcome that is a lateral or a quick screen toss to the outside and hope for good YAC. A physical player like Juwan or even Booker and CJ are all good options to lean in and hit the LB's or DB's hard when they try and tackle them. So as I've said I am a little surprised to have not seen at least a few carries from Juwan if but for no other reason than to see how he has progressed and if he can earn more time.

                            In some respects I see this as a similar situation to what Kubiak did to motivate CJ earlier. Booker had some good plays and CJ was not quite as good as he has been. Kubiak said he was going to play Booker more and he did...yet CJ stepped up his game and played very well. So I'd like to see Juwan used like that to see if either of the 3 backs can rise to the ocasion and start separating themselves from the pack.
                            The biggest problem against a WR or slot screen is that the DBs aren't playing off. You can't have success on those plays when the corner is 4 yards or less from the receiver. It's just about impossible to get the blocking you need in place in time.

                            And a RB screen is tough against defenses that aren't being aggressive, they're not impossible, but they work much better if you catch the defense bring 6 or 7. But most times defenses are bringing 4 and playing zone, so the LBs are dropping and reading, it's a matter of whether your o-line can get to those LBs before they can make a play. And if it's man coverage, you're in trouble.

                            The way to get the offense going is hitting intermediate routes and forcing the defense to have to respect the pass. The o-line isn't great, but some of their shortcomings are brought on by the QB, and his shortcomings at this point.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                              Right and when an OL has issues one way of trying to overcome that is a lateral or a quick screen toss to the outside and hope for good YAC. A physical player like Juwan or even Booker and CJ are all good options to lean in and hit the LB's or DB's hard when they try and tackle them. So as I've said I am a little surprised to have not seen at least a few carries from Juwan if but for no other reason than to see how he has progressed and if he can earn more time.

                              In some respects I see this as a similar situation to what Kubiak did to motivate CJ earlier. Booker had some good plays and CJ was not quite as good as he has been. Kubiak said he was going to play Booker more and he did...yet CJ stepped up his game and played very well. So I'd like to see Juwan used like that to see if either of the 3 backs can rise to the ocasion and start separating themselves from the pack.
                              IMO Thompson must not be running well in practice for Bibbs to be the #2.
                              Superbowl 50 Champions!

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