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A good argument for Siemian

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  • haciendadad
    replied
    Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    Siemian by no means was horrible, but he I didn't see enough promise for me to hope he's back with this team. It's not a simple issue to me. People previously mentioned the stats of legendary QBs. I can't draw that comparison because guys like Peyton who struggled their 1st year had a very high ceiling that many thought he could reach. If Siemian had that type of potential, I'd say okay. Even with Peyton's 1st year with tons of INTs, many of those came because he didn't have a good team and he was basically gun slinging. I would have honestly preferred Siemian to take more chances on explosive plays than the dink and dunk passes I saw this season. Granted, the O line was subpar and the play calling seemed predictable, I came away from many games thinking Siemian can only manage games.

    Now if go get a Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson or some other high impact player (along with some other impact player) and don't have much money left, I'd lean towards letting Siemian know the team is his and Lynch will continue to grow.

    This defense has carried the team for so long. We can't keep expecting them to score TDs and force 3+ TOs a game. At some point the offense, and specifically the QB is gonna have to be the deciding factor in games and sadly I just don't see that in Siemian.
    I don't understand why people encourage QBs to throw high risk "explosive passes" even in their rookie year rather than use low risk passes and when the time is right shoot one down the field like Siemian did once the defense stopped playing honest. Rivers is that type of passer yet it still didn't help his team. We just barely missed the playoffs in his first year, this year is not his ceiling so he will get better, he'll read defenses better, throw faster and continue to build the WRs' chemistry. If he was throwing more high risk passes it would only have given him more INTs and more reasons for people to put him down. If we had two WRs like OBJ then maybe, but we don't
    Last edited by haciendadad; 01-03-2017, 05:42 PM.

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  • cmc0605
    replied
    As I have said before, this argument is entirely psychological.

    All of the arguments against TS are based on perceptions of what can be expected of a 7th round draft pick. Consequently, all of the arguments centered around "feelings of his ceiling" and "it factor" are basically like reading stars to predict your future. Most of it is baseless. If Paxton had an identical season, not just statistically, but in the precise outcome of individual plays, there would be no discussion occurring, and the party line would be "good year, needs improvement in x, y, and z, needs some help around him."

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  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    There's only one argument for or against Siemian, and it will be made by Siemian in OTAs and training camp. He'll battle for the job. That's it. There's no point trying to convince each other one way or the other. Just wait for it to play out.
    In addition to who starts we need both of them to improve, the more the better. We saw how quickly one sack took Siemian out - same thing for Tannehill, Carr, etc.

    Get both of them to another level and our odds go up to make the playoffs.

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  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by Brakshow View Post
    I didn't see much of an "IT" factor from Derek Carr his first year (because there was
    none), but he's done well with another off season, coaching and confidence.

    Also, what's this stuff Lynch has that you can't coach? I didn't see any of it when he played. The ability to run? Coaches figured out how to contain the running QB half a decade ago. So what it all comes down to is a bigger arm. Just like Cutler and JaMarcus Russell. Intangibles mean nothing if you're smart at the game. Manning didn't have a huge arm in 2013 when we were the best offense in history. Brady doesn't have a strong arm either and very rarely airs it out.

    There's a lot more to this position than long bombs and praying for pass interference penalties that the great QBs figure out and excellent at regardless of actual arm strength. All you need is an arm strong enough to make all your NFL throws and a 70 yd bomb through the air is not one of those necessary throws. They're low percentage no matter who the QB is and teams that rely on that fail.

    In my opinion Trevor is just as capable as anyone else to execute any game plan a new coach could bring in. It just comes down to execution and learning. Whoever learns the new offense the best and is best equipped to win us games I want starting.

    I quit buying into the "stuff they can't teach/intangible" argument when everyone on this board for the most part wanted Plummer pulled at 7-4 and after an AFCCG the year before; because Cutler had a "cannon for an arm". Too bad he was mentally ill prepared to be an NFL QB. Something we could have found out or tried to work with him on had he been given time to develop behind Plummer instead of being pushed in too soon.
    If you didn't see anything in Carr's rookie year...thank God your not our talent scout

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  • Butler By'Note
    replied
    There's only one argument for or against Siemian, and it will be made by Siemian in OTAs and training camp. He'll battle for the job. That's it. There's no point trying to convince each other one way or the other. Just wait for it to play out.

    Leave a comment:


  • 602BroncoFan
    replied
    Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    Maybe you missed the part about potential. Many great QBs struggled their first year but people saw them as having a high ceiling. I don't really see a high ceiling with Siemian. Not to mention, many of those great QBs that came in and struggled had horrible teams. Siemian didn't have the greatest O line, but had two pro bowl WRs and couldn't them the ball enough. Not saying he had a horrible year, but look at how many points we scored the last 4 weeks. Every game we lost (minus the 1st Chiefs game) we didn't score over 20 points. At some point, this offense is gonna have to be a threat and I don't see it with #13. Paxton looked like a deer in head lights sometimes when he plays, but honestly, I'll take his upside over the mediocre play of Siemian.

    I'm not really disappointed Siemian didn't light it up this year, I just don't think he'll be capable of it. Alex Smith is a game manager too on a dangerous team, but he doesn't have the weapons we do. I'm my eyes Trevor is just not the QB that can deliver with this offense.
    I didn't miss anything, you were being ambiguous.

    What the man may or may or may not become is to be seen however given even this small sample size for comparison and considering there's been challenges with the line and run game, he doesnt appear to be as inadequate as people would like to make him seem.

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  • Brakshow
    replied
    Originally posted by jkinder33 View Post
    I really like simian. I'm just not seeing that it factor. Guys that just seem to get it done in crunch time. Hopefully that changes.
    I didn't see much of an "IT" factor from Derek Carr his first year (because there was none), but he's done well with another off season, coaching and confidence.

    Also, what's this stuff Lynch has that you can't coach? I didn't see any of it when he played. The ability to run? Coaches figured out how to contain the running QB half a decade ago. So what it all comes down to is a bigger arm. Just like Cutler and JaMarcus Russell. Intangibles mean nothing if you're smart at the game. Manning didn't have a huge arm in 2013 when we were the best offense in history. Brady doesn't have a strong arm either and very rarely airs it out.

    There's a lot more to this position than long bombs and praying for pass interference penalties that the great QBs figure out and excellent at regardless of actual arm strength. All you need is an arm strong enough to make all your NFL throws and a 70 yd bomb through the air is not one of those necessary throws. They're low percentage no matter who the QB is and teams that rely on that fail.

    In my opinion Trevor is just as capable as anyone else to execute any game plan a new coach could bring in. It just comes down to execution and learning. Whoever learns the new offense the best and is best equipped to win us games I want starting.

    I quit buying into the "stuff they can't teach/intangible" argument when everyone on this board for the most part wanted Plummer pulled at 7-4 and after an AFCCG the year before; because Cutler had a "cannon for an arm". Too bad he was mentally ill prepared to be an NFL QB. Something we could have found out or tried to work with him on had he been given time to develop behind Plummer instead of being pushed in too soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • haciendadad
    replied
    Originally posted by kingelway7 View Post
    I cant make an argument for Siemian over Lynch no matter how hard I try. Just cant.

    Lynch has what you cant teach. Siemian doesnt and he cant learn it. Siemian has what you can teach. Lynch doesnt but he can learn it.

    Im not saying that Lynch's career will be stellar and Siemian's will be average or worse. Its just that theres no track record for Siemian that holds enough weight to go Siemian over Lynch.
    You keep on posting this, this will be true is ever Paxton shows us something that leads us to believe this. The proof is on the field!

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  • Kyousukeneko
    replied
    around first year starting QB it is average but he probably at best is an average QB in this league

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  • champ&dreallday
    replied
    Originally posted by 602BroncoFan View Post
    What did you, or anyone see in other great QBS their first full year that you don't in this one?

    How many QBs come in their first year and just light it up with record breaking stats and go win a SB?
    Maybe you missed the part about potential. Many great QBs struggled their first year but people saw them as having a high ceiling. I don't really see a high ceiling with Siemian. Not to mention, many of those great QBs that came in and struggled had horrible teams. Siemian didn't have the greatest O line, but had two pro bowl WRs and couldn't them the ball enough. Not saying he had a horrible year, but look at how many points we scored the last 4 weeks. Every game we lost (minus the 1st Chiefs game) we didn't score over 20 points. At some point, this offense is gonna have to be a threat and I don't see it with #13. Paxton looked like a deer in head lights sometimes when he plays, but honestly, I'll take his upside over the mediocre play of Siemian.

    I'm not really disappointed Siemian didn't light it up this year, I just don't think he'll be capable of it. Alex Smith is a game manager too on a dangerous team, but he doesn't have the weapons we do. I'm my eyes Trevor is just not the QB that can deliver with this offense.

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  • samparnell
    replied
    [QUOTE=Fantaztic7;5533834]
    Originally posted by kingelway7 View Post
    Nothing stellar here from Siemian as a senior at Northwestern. He can hit checkdowns and crossing routes, and thats about it.

    Siemian certainly has room to improve - nobody would argue that point. To say that he can only hit check downs and crossing routes is not accurate. Watch the following highlights instead of just pulling out highlights from Northwestern. He needs to develop consistency. I'm not advocating for him to be the starter however he had some very good throws throughout the season, along with some that weren't so good.

    Right. At this point Trevor Siemian college video is irrelevant in view of the fact he has an NFL season available for observation and evaluation.

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  • shawinkerpoppin
    replied
    Folks did the same thing with tebow comparing his first season stats to elway and others. Watch the tape not the stat sheet.

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  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Siemian certainly has room to improve - nobody would argue that point. To say that he can only hit check downs and crossing routes is not accurate. Watch the following highlights instead of just pulling out highlights from Northwestern. He needs to develop consistency. I'm not advocating for him to be the starter however he had some very good throws throughout the season, along with some that weren't so good.

    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 01-03-2017, 11:40 AM.

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  • kingelway7
    replied
    Nothing stellar here from Siemian as a senior at Northwestern. He can hit checkdowns and crossing routes, and thats about it.


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  • BroncoDF
    replied
    Siemian has a good arm, seems smart and disciplined. Can't underestimate that. He may not be THE answer, alright. But I think he can still grow. All in all, our best option so far.

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