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The Mythical "Athletic QB"

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  • The Mythical "Athletic QB"

    I am confused about the advantage of the "Athletic QB". It seems that every few years an Athletic QB comes on the scene and when he tries to break loose to get that first down everyone is cheering his praises, but as we know a QB in the wild is a defensive linebacker's dream. Then eventually the QB gets hurt and the coaches work with him to make him a pocket passer. If many of the Athletic QBs eventually loose game time because they are using their athletic ability why are we putting extra value on this quality? Most QBs have enough ability to escape a rush, at least when they are young but young QBs who are encouraged to using those escape abilities seem to always use it too much and possibly skip making all their reads. Even the biggest athletic QBs eventually seem to be getting shots that seems to be hurting their game. My point is I would rather focus on qualities like accuracy, quick release, feeling the pressure, decision making, and throwing a catchable ball before athleticism because that is not what makes a great QB IMO.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My new favorite Bronco - KJ Hamler Guy plays inspiring football!.

  • #2
    John Elway
    Steve Young
    Warren Moon
    Randall Cunningham
    Michael Vick
    Aaron Rodgers
    Brett Favre
    Jeff Garcia
    Mark Brunnell
    Rich Gannon
    Donovan McNabb
    Andrew Luck
    Russell Wilson
    Andy Dalton
    Ben Roethlisberger

    That's a partial list of some of the better "athletic" QBs from the last 25 years. Being "athletic" doesn't just mean running (although almost all of these QBs were good at that) it's also about escaping pressure and finding a way to extend plays.

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    • #3
      The "athletic QB" is not a problem. The running QB is a problem.



      The pocket QB is the way to go. If the QB has athleticism to extend the play in the pocket, that's fine.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
        The "athletic QB" is not a problem. The running QB is a problem.



        The pocket QB is the way to go. If the QB has athleticism to extend the play in the pocket, that's fine.
        I guess that is what I was thinking, more of a QB that you have to cover for his running ability and uses it as an option more so than a last resort thus the defense has to scheme for that. The list of QBs that Butler By'Note provided are QBs that have athletic ability that most any pro football player would have. The ones on that list that I were referring to at like Michael Vick, RG III, Cam Newton and Randall Cunningham maybe Steve Young. The others on that list are guys that can escape if given a chance rather than just giving up like old Peyton.
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        My new favorite Bronco - KJ Hamler Guy plays inspiring football!.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
          I guess that is what I was thinking, more of a QB that you have to cover for his running ability and uses it as an option more so than a last resort thus the defense has to scheme for that. The list of QBs that Butler By'Note provided are QBs that have athletic ability that most any pro football player would have. The ones on that list that I were referring to at like Michael Vick, RG III, Cam Newton and Randall Cunningham maybe Steve Young. The others on that list are guys that can escape if given a chance rather than just giving up like old Peyton.
          Steve Young and John Elway were both running QBs, both are in the HOF. Rich Gannon ran for 529 yards in 2000 in Oakland, 231 in 2001 and 156 in 2002. This year was Russell Wilson's lowest rushing total at 259 yards (due to injury), the year the Seahawks won the Super Bowl he rushed for 849 yards. In Aaron Rodgers years as a starter he's failed to eclipse 200 yards rushing only once.

          Teams should stay away from QBs with nothing but their legs, but I fail to see how any of the issues with "athletic QBs" as you originally put it, and now running QBs, as it's been changed to.

          It's great to have a pocket QB, but you need someone with athleticism to keep plays alive, and having a QB who can also scramble and pick up yards when needed is a very good thing to have. If you have a mobile QB thee defense has to account for them, if you don't then they don't and they've got the numbers advantage.

          I don't want a QB who runs QB Power 5 times a game (or even 5 times a season) but I do want a QB who can move and gain yards. And I know you've tended to prefer Siemian, and this thread was probably intended to be a pick Siemian over Lynch thread (if it's not I apologize and stand corrected) but in talking about athletic QBs and how the Broncos don't need that you're discounting the athleticism that Siemian does have, and showed a little bit of early in the season.
          Last edited by Butler By'Note; 02-26-2017, 12:53 PM.

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          • #6
            To the best of my memory every year the top QB prospects that have come out all are pretty athletic QBs. They might not be known for it or rely on it but they all have the ability to use their leg to scramble in the pocket or pick up the occasional first down when its available. Even Goff ran a 4.8. I think what you see out of Brady and manning is the fact that they are so old they don't have it in them to move like that anymore and overtime they developed their pocket awareness and their movement in the pocket. Something like that comes with experience you wont find a rookie with that skill set.

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            • #7
              Interesting thread. I've always thought athleticism was a great bonus for a QB, but not essential. Marino, Brady, and Manning weren't athletic, but it didn't matter. On the other hand, athletic QBs do have options that other QBs don't. Their ability to scramble, extend plays, and throw on the run makes them incredibly dangerous. That's why our own John Elway was the greatest playmaking QB ever.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                To the best of my memory every year the top QB prospects that have come out all are pretty athletic QBs. They might not be known for it or rely on it but they all have the ability to use their leg to scramble in the pocket or pick up the occasional first down when its available. Even Goff ran a 4.8. I think what you see out of Brady and manning is the fact that they are so old they don't have it in them to move like that anymore and overtime they developed their pocket awareness and their movement in the pocket. Something like that comes with experience you wont find a rookie with that skill set.
                Actually, Brady is more athletic now than he was when he was 24, unfortunately.

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                • #9
                  The best QBs (IMO) are the ones who can use their feet to escape pressure and then make a play happen. I always liked Big Ben for that. He is just so hard to tackle

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
                    I guess that is what I was thinking, more of a QB that you have to cover for his running ability and uses it as an option more so than a last resort thus the defense has to scheme for that. The list of QBs that Butler By'Note provided are QBs that have athletic ability that most any pro football player would have. The ones on that list that I were referring to at like Michael Vick, RG III, Cam Newton and Randall Cunningham maybe Steve Young. The others on that list are guys that can escape if given a chance rather than just giving up like old Peyton.
                    Russell Wilson is a guy that comes to mind whom defenses have to plan for. I don't recall him being injured until last year. I think one of his advantages was that he was also a baseball player and has escapeability and knows how to slide. But he too is staying more and more in the pocket. But maybe that had more to do with the fact that he was injured.
                    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Orangecrush21 View Post
                      The best QBs (IMO) are the ones who can use their feet to escape pressure and then make a play happen. I always liked Big Ben for that. He is just so hard to tackle
                      The problem with those guys is they are some of the most sacked QBs in the league as well. Big Ben was the most sacked/hit QB pretty much every year during the first of half of his career, those numbers dropped significantly the last couple years when he's learned to get rid of the ball quicker. Russell Wilson is another example, he's been sacked 40+ times every year except his rookie year.

                      Pass rushers have become more athletic, o-lineman in general have yet to catch up. IMO the most important attributes for a QB in today's NFL are being able to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly. The short passing game is the bread and butter of NFL offenses these days.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                        Steve Young and John Elway were both running QBs, both are in the HOF. Rich Gannon ran for 529 yards in 2000 in Oakland, 231 in 2001 and 156 in 2002. This year was Russell Wilson's lowest rushing total at 259 yards (due to injury), the year the Seahawks won the Super Bowl he rushed for 849 yards. In Aaron Rodgers years as a starter he's failed to eclipse 200 yards rushing only once.

                        Teams should stay away from QBs with nothing but their legs, but I fail to see how any of the issues with "athletic QBs" as you originally put it, and now running QBs, as it's been changed to.

                        It's great to have a pocket QB, but you need someone with athleticism to keep plays alive, and having a QB who can also scramble and pick up yards when needed is a very good thing to have. If you have a mobile QB thee defense has to account for them, if you don't then they don't and they've got the numbers advantage.

                        I don't want a QB who runs QB Power 5 times a game (or even 5 times a season) but I do want a QB who can move and gain yards. And I know you've tended to prefer Siemian, and this thread was probably intended to be a pick Siemian over Lynch thread (if it's not I apologize and stand corrected) but in talking about athletic QBs and how the Broncos don't need that you're discounting the athleticism that Siemian does have, and showed a little bit of early in the season.
                        U don't want to see PA with an empty backfield again? Come on!
                        #swapping

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          John Elway
                          Steve Young
                          Warren Moon
                          Randall Cunningham
                          Michael Vick
                          Aaron Rodgers
                          Brett Favre
                          Jeff Garcia
                          Mark Brunnell
                          Rich Gannon
                          Donovan McNabb
                          Andrew Luck
                          Russell Wilson
                          Andy Dalton
                          Ben Roethlisberger

                          That's a partial list of some of the better "athletic" QBs from the last 25 years. Being "athletic" doesn't just mean running (although almost all of these QBs were good at that) it's also about escaping pressure and finding a way to extend plays.
                          This, i was gonna name Rodgers. Athletic isn't the problem. An athletic QB can do it all. He can stand in the pocket, he run outside to escape pressure and deliver and accurate throw on the run, and if need be he can rush.

                          The running QB is the problem. A running QB mental make up is...Well run. Think of Vick, Tebow, RGIII, etc. The first thing on their mind is run.

                          I don't lump Cam in with them. I think Cam is in the same plain as Rodgers, Big Ben, Wilson, etc.

                          The athletic QB in my opinion is the most valuable. Outside of teams led by a Manning. The super bowls of this decent and last decent, had an athletic QB on one or both sidelines.
                          sigpic
                          Adopted Broncos:
                          EmmanuelSanders

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                            The problem with those guys is they are some of the most sacked QBs in the league as well. Big Ben was the most sacked/hit QB pretty much every year during the first of half of his career, those numbers dropped significantly the last couple years when he's learned to get rid of the ball quicker. Russell Wilson is another example, he's been sacked 40+ times every year except his rookie year.

                            Pass rushers have become more athletic, o-lineman in general have yet to catch up. IMO the most important attributes for a QB in today's NFL are being able to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly. The short passing game is the bread and butter of NFL offenses these days.
                            Same can be said in any sport. Batters that swing with power and often knocks the ball out the park, also struck out a lot. Because of this (as well as many other reasons) the baseball experts love Miggy, because he swings for the fence without striking out at a high rate.

                            In baseball people who score insane points usually missed a lot. A lot of Kobe games he missed a lot but was still getting 25+ points.

                            Point is, taking risk always have a chance to not have a good result.
                            sigpic
                            Adopted Broncos:
                            EmmanuelSanders

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
                              I am confused about the advantage of the "Athletic QB". It seems that every few years an Athletic QB comes on the scene and when he tries to break loose to get that first down everyone is cheering his praises, but as we know a QB in the wild is a defensive linebacker's dream. Then eventually the QB gets hurt and the coaches work with him to make him a pocket passer. If many of the Athletic QBs eventually loose game time because they are using their athletic ability why are we putting extra value on this quality? Most QBs have enough ability to escape a rush, at least when they are young but young QBs who are encouraged to using those escape abilities seem to always use it too much and possibly skip making all their reads. Even the biggest athletic QBs eventually seem to be getting shots that seems to be hurting their game. My point is I would rather focus on qualities like accuracy, quick release, feeling the pressure, decision making, and throwing a catchable ball before athleticism because that is not what makes a great QB IMO.

                              A running qb can be very dangerous only if he knows when its time to use those skills. I seen Elway extend plays off of scambling numerous times.

                              The problem is with qbs that depend on running before watching the play develop. I believe you can teach a running qb to be patient in a pocket, but you can never teach a non running qb to become "athletic".

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