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Just to stir the pot a little, winner of trade?

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  • Just to stir the pot a little, winner of trade?

    So I happened to come across an old Clinton Portis interview this morning. I'm pretty sure everyone would remember this interview where Clinton Portis made a sarcastic remark speculating whether he would hold out for more money or not.

    Shortly thereafter a disgusted Mike Shanahan made the decision to part ways with Portis by trading him to the Washington redskins for Champ the stud Corner back. It happened on March 4, 2004, when the Washington Redskins traded Champ Bailey and a second-round pick to the Denver Broncos for Clinton Portis.

    Looking back more than 12 years we can ask ourselves, who was the true winner of the trade?

    Also and in all honestly if we would have had Clinton Portis in the 2005 AFC championship game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, would the Broncos have had a better shot at winning that game going on to the Super Bowl?

    I'm not saying that Clinton Portis was a better athlete than Champ Bailey and I know Champ was pretty much responsible for beating New England that year. However with the run blocking scheme that we had and the skills of Clinton Portis paired with the threat that Jake Plummer presented being able to throw and run himself, I for one have always felt that had that trade never went down and we had Portis perhaps we beat Pittsburgh and go on to the Super Bowl that year and perhaps we even winning it.

    But just thought of speculation who is the true winner of this trade? We got Champ Bailey for a lot of years and he was here for a portion of the Peyton Manning era but he never won a championship.

    And although Portis never won a championship in Washington either, one has to realize that Portis may not have had the supporting cast around him in Washington that he would've had an Denver. So in all honesty and even though I love champ, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think Washington got the better end of the deal.
    They got a stud running that would have a greater impact on any team than a star defender would unless thst defenders name is Von Miller.


    Last edited by Sam_Z; 08-07-2017, 07:54 AM.

  • #2
    IMO your looking at the trade a bit to one dimensionally. Remember CHJ was mentored by Champ. It was the beginning the no fly zone.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
      IMO your looking at the trade a bit to one dimensionally. Remember CHJ was mentored by Champ. It was the beginning the no fly zone.

      Champ had a huge impact of course but I'm not going to award him all the credit for the man that Chris Harris Junior has become.

      Now don't get me wrong, I believe Chris Harris did benefit greatly from champs in guidance but Chris is a very mature human being and he has the talent and he would've been a stand up guy either way because right now Aqib Talib is there with him and Aqib is somewhat of a ticking time bomb a narrotic personality.

      No offense to Aqib but his off the field detrimental ways at times do not influence Chris Harris Jr one bit.

      Chris Harris is a good man that was mentored by Champ but he would had been a guy no matter what because he's Chris Harris Jr. It's in his blood, it's who he is with or without Champ!

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      • #4
        The Broncos had a better chance of winning the Super Bowl with Portis running for 1,500+ yards than with Champ Bailey covering one WR. Champ had a HoF career with all the individual accolades, but I think a RB can carry an offense and contribute more to a team win than a cornerback, especially in that Kubiak/Shanahan offense where the running game builds up the play-action pass and the big plays.

        Everyone will say the Broncos won the trade because Champ Bailey had the better career individually, but Portis was special in the zone-blocking system and probably would have had a special career in Denver.

        I would have liked to see that 2005 Broncos team with Portis taking the pressure off Jake Plummer in the playoffs. Portis ran for 1,516 yards that year. Also, the 2008 Broncos were 1 game away from the playoffs with a young Jay Cutler, dealing with multiple injuries at the RB position. Imagine that offense, that finished #2 in total yards, with Portis who ran for 1,487 yards (his last productive season in the NFL).

        There is no way I would have traded Clinton Portis after two 2 seasons with 1,500+ rushing yards.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
          The Broncos had a better chance of winning the Super Bowl with Portis running for 1,500+ yards than with Champ Bailey covering one WR. Champ had a HoF career with all the individual accolades, but I think a RB can carry an offense and contribute more to a team win than a cornerback, especially in that Kubiak/Shanahan offense where the running game builds up the play-action pass and the big plays.

          Everyone will say the Broncos won the trade because Champ Bailey had the better career individually, but Portis was special in the zone-blocking system and probably would have had a special career in Denver.

          I would have liked to see that 2005 Broncos team with Portis taking the pressure off Jake Plummer in the playoffs. Portis ran for 1,516 yards that year. Also, the 2008 Broncos were 1 game away from the playoffs with a young Jay Cutler, dealing with multiple injuries at the RB position. Imagine that offense, that finished #2 in total yards, with Portis who ran for 1,487 yards (his last productive season in the NFL).

          There is no way I would have traded Clinton Portis after two 2 seasons with 1,500+ rushing yards.
          Great statement.

          Even though everyone loves Champ and he's quite the guy, I can't help but wonder how often Shanahan regretted that trade.

          Perhaps he never did but no matter how good your oline is, plugging in any running back, you can never make up for great talent like Portis. I thought he'd be in the Barry Sanders class if he had remained in Denver!

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          • #6
            Denver absolutely fleeced Washington. I can't believe this is even a topic. Denver acquired one of the 5 best CBs of all time for a very good back, but one who will never even sniff Canton. And no, he was not the next Barry Sanders if he remained in Denver. As far as the 2005 AFC title game, we lost that game mainly because Big Ben was much better than Jake Plummer. Washington even threw in a 2nd round pick to boot. Frankly, as far as big NFL trades go, this one was completely lopsided in Denver's favor.

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            • #7
              The Broncos rushed for more than 2500 yards that season with Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell gaining almost 2000 yards between them, they ranked 2nd in rushing that season, the Redskins ranked 7th. The Broncos could virtually plug in most any RB and be one of the top teams running the ball, it was more about the system and the OL than the RB and Shanahan showed that several times during his time here.
              The INT by champ against the Pats was a major swing in that playoff game, without it we likely don't even get to the AFC championship game. Steelers QB had ~125 QB rating, 15 1st downs in the AFC championship, we had 4 turnovers - all by Plummer. Steelers kept converting 3rd downs in that game (10/16 62% passing), I don't think having Portis would have made any difference.
              I think the Broncos came out on top with that trade, made the defense better - at that time - and could still run the ball better than the vast majority of teams.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                Champ had a huge impact of course but I'm not going to award him all the credit for the man that Chris Harris Junior has become.

                Now don't get me wrong, I believe Chris Harris did benefit greatly from champs in guidance but Chris is a very mature human being and he has the talent and he would've been a stand up guy either way because right now Aqib Talib is there with him and Aqib is somewhat of a ticking time bomb a narrotic personality.

                No offense to Aqib but his off the field detrimental ways at times do not influence Chris Harris Jr one bit.

                Chris Harris is a good man that was mentored by Champ but he would had been a guy no matter what because he's Chris Harris Jr. It's in his blood, it's who he is with or without Champ!
                Would he have been a great player...maybe. is it a fair statement to think that being mentored by a top tier CB at the position is a huge deal and likely accelerated his growth...i personally believe so.

                Do not misinterpret these comments as slamming CHJ or his character. I think the type of guy he is is pretty well documented. The way I see it is a bit like Ray. Would Shane Ray have been a good player in the NFL if he were drafted elsewhere...likely. Would he have progressed at the same pace elsewhere without the mentorship and leadership of Ware and Miller? - again IMO no.

                I have a similar opinion with Ray as I do CHJ and yes I do agree the Harris is the better player at his position.
                Last edited by Rich_C; 08-07-2017, 10:04 AM.

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                • #9
                  Neither team won a Super Bowl with the player they received, but Denver did go to the AFC Championship game and Super Bowl with Bailey on the roster. Bailey only played 5 games in 2013, but he did play in the playoffs and started for Chris Harris after Harris injured his knee.

                  Portis never had the same success in Washington that he did in Denver, and they made the playoffs only twice in his 7 years with them.

                  Both teams got what they wanted from the players but neither had the team success that they would have wanted. I'll give Denver the edge in the trade because the went to an AFC Championship game in part due to Bailey, and Bailey started a Super Bowl for them, even though he was a shell of his former self at the time. I'd also give Denver the edge because Tatum Bell (the player they selected with the pick) rushed for 925 yards and 8 touchdowns in 2005 (only playing 15 games and starting 1) in the year they went to the AFC Championship game, and then posted 1,025 yards in 2006.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gerontion View Post
                    Denver absolutely fleeced Washington. I can't believe this is even a topic.
                    Originally posted by brianmcfarlane
                    The Broncos rushed for more than 2500 yards that season with Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell gaining almost 2000 yards between them
                    I agree with these points ^

                    The fact that Champ is most likely going to be a first-ballot hall of fame player, helped mentor defensive players currently on the roster, and had such a positive impact on the franchise, it's hard to make a case for the Redskins being the winners of the trade.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
                      The Broncos rushed for more than 2500 yards that season with Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell gaining almost 2000 yards between them, they ranked 2nd in rushing that season, the Redskins ranked 7th. The Broncos could virtually plug in most any RB and be one of the top teams running the ball, it was more about the system and the OL than the RB and Shanahan showed that several times during his time here..
                      This is the deciding point for me. Back then we were still experiencing that incredible stretch of seasons where we could plug almost any RB behind our Gibbs designed OL and they'd bag us a 1000+ yd season. Champ on the other hand, was one of those once in a decade shutdown corners and was well worth giving up Portis. Also, I'd rather have Champ's "team first" attitude in our locker room than Portis who always struck me as being a "me first" kind of guy
                      "There is no plan B. Plan A is to win the Super Bowl" - John Elway
                      PLAN A ACCOMPLISHED 2/7/16!!!
                      LSU 15-0 2019 BCS Champions...Geaux Tigers :dance:

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                      • #12
                        If we had Portis would we have still received that bye or would we have been one and done again against the Colts?

                        To quantify a winner is hard because we wanted Champ for the Colts but nothing really changed there. The Redskins wanted Portis to presumably have a dominant rushing attack but they made him gain 20 lbs immediately and really nullified what made him so special so their run game while still good probably wasn't what they wanted. Meanwhile we got Tatum Bell and had Reuben Droughns plus Mike Anderson who all played well at various times.

                        But how many people call it the Clinton Portis trade? I think most say the Champ Bailey trade so maybe we won but I don't think either team really won or at least not the way they wanted to
                        Last edited by beastlyskronk; 08-07-2017, 11:15 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Portis=CHUMP

                          Champ is a HOFer and a class act
                          "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

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                          • #14
                            I truly beleve portis would have been the next 2k runner if he stayed.

                            That being said. Champ is first ballot hof.

                            Portis ain't sniffing that.

                            We win.


                            And i bet the derby trade last year will wield a winner too
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                              And i bet the derby trade last year will wield a winner too
                              The Patriots used that 5th-round pick to get RB Mike Gillislee, so we will have to see what he does as their starting RB. He was very good as the Bills backup last season.
                              sigpic

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