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What is with the zone defense?!?!

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  • #31
    The idea that Wade Phillips only used Cover 1/0 is not supported by what was seen on the field. He used various zone coverages in 2015/16. I don't recall seeing Cover 9, but there was one game where he called Cover 8 for most of the second half. He has also used combos and inverts as well as zone blitz. The reason is that coverages need to be varied, otherwise NFL QBs will pick them apart.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • #32
      Here's PFF ranking the percentage defenses play man coverage. The Broncos aren't in the top 5 for most man coverage (and I'm not paying to see more) but note that only 1 team (KC) plays man coverage more than 50% of the time.

      https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...age-percentage

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      • #33
        With the depth at CB, the Broncos should be in the top 5 in man coverage %. Actually, I'd say the Broncos should be #1 because that's what the Broncos CBs do best and no one else has this depth in the secondary.
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        • #34
          As others have pointed out, some of this is perception, but what stands out to me is the pass rush, or lack thereof. We're not getting push up the middle to make the edge rushers dangerous. No secondary is going to look great if QB's can step up into the pocket and have time to deliver the ball. The 2015 playoff run is what sticks in people's minds, and that pass rush got to the opposing QB's in a hurry with viscousness. That wasn't always the case during the regular season though. The 2017 D is still really good, but lacks that middle push. Ray coming back may help by freeing Walker to join the rotation inside, or by getting Shaq, Von, and Ray on the field at the same time. Even lacking middle penetration, this D is plenty good enough to go far in the playoffs if the other side of the ball could score.

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          • #35
            Imo the bigger problem last game was Von`s inability to beat one on one matchups. The Giants had a former guard moved to tackle. Imo Von should have unleashed his outside rush on him but it looked like we were playing like it was Alex Smith with a mild rush intended to keep the qb in the pocket....it was Eli man 🤔
            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Hadez View Post
              Imo the bigger problem last game was Von`s inability to beat one on one matchups. The Giants had a former guard moved to tackle. Imo Von should have unleashed his outside rush on him but
              What I miss the most about Von is his "matrix" move, that gumby move with a ridiculous bend to get under the OT and run the arc without losing speed. I haven't seen that move since he injured his knee. I don't know if he stopped doing that because of his knee. That was a killer move that produced very quick sacks. Though Von is getting one sack per game, he should be able to do more and feast on bad OTs like the other elite rushers do. Remember when Dumervil would get multiple sacks against the Browns and wreck the game? Or Mack putting Schofield on skates? I don't see Von taking advantage of those opportunities.
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              • #37
                Originally posted by Rastic View Post
                We run both zone and man coverage, probably leaning more on zone coverage. Manning's numbers yesterday 128 yards 11/19 (57.9%) 1 TD. He didn't need to pass the ball as much because they were down their primary receivers and they were able to run so effectively. The main exception people have issue with are the passes to the TE.

                A TE is generally going to be covered by a LB or a safety though in zone it's the responsibility of the defender to cover is zone and hand off coverage as necessary. In any case the NFZ was not really the problem with the game. Engram had a fabulous game, but a TE that big and quick will challenge any LB or safety. He netted 85 yards on 7 receptions. The next closest receiver in yards had 15.

                No, the secondary was not the problem at all with yesterday's game.

                Giants

                148 yards rushing, no TDs
                128 yards passing, 1 TD

                2/3 Field Goals
                1 INT/TD

                The defense struggled mightily against the run that kept the Giants offense on the field. On the other side, we struggled to move the ball on the ground or through the air. Miscues, mistakes, drops, fumbles, interceptions...

                Zone or man coverage, the secondary was not the problem at all.
                Brandon Marshall was stated to have an injury that affected the run stopping.
                Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                • #38
                  The zone defense is fine; it isn't, and hasn't been, the problem. Zone or man, our secondary is plenty talented enough to keep most offenses in check. I think it's most effective when you mix up zone and man coverages so the opposing offense doesn't always know what you are doing. As others have said, zone is less taxing to play and zone schemes are generally more effective than man schemes in stopping the running game.

                  The problems with the defense have mostly been a lack of pass rush and an inability to effectively make in-game adjustments (such as shutting down Engram when it became clear he would be the focus of the Giants' offense). But it's the Broncos' offense that is really the problem here, it's tough to ask much more of the defense.

                  Despite the offense's general incompetence (ranking 27th in the league overall) meaning that the defense is on the field more and often playing against unfavorable field position, Denver's defense is currently FIRST overall, THIRD against the pass, and FIRST against the run. The run defense in particular is a massive improvement over last year, and I credit much of that improvement to the mixing in of zone coverages.

                  Sure, I would like to see them get more turnovers and be #1 against the pass, but this is clearly the best defense in the NFL this year. That's not a claim we could make in 2016 because the run defense was atrocious. I think Joseph and Woods deserve a ton of credit for fixing a huge weakness in this defense in just one year. I assure you, the zone defense is not the problem and has seemed to help a lot.

                  If the offense could even be decent, this could be a great football team.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                    What I miss the most about Von is his "matrix" move, that gumby move with a ridiculous bend to get under the OT and run the arc without losing speed. I haven't seen that move since he injured his knee. I don't know if he stopped doing that because of his knee. That was a killer move that produced very quick sacks. Though Von is getting one sack per game, he should be able to do more and feast on bad OTs like the other elite rushers do. Remember when Dumervil would get multiple sacks against the Browns and wreck the game? Or Mack putting Schofield on skates? I don't see Von taking advantage of those opportunities.
                    agreed

                    He does not have to do it all the time but once he knows he is getting single team he should let loose this move and all his outside moves against pocket passers.

                    Hopefully we get to see him do this against SD and Rivers.
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dgobronco View Post
                      As others have pointed out, some of this is perception, but what stands out to me is the pass rush, or lack thereof. We're not getting push up the middle to make the edge rushers dangerous. No secondary is going to look great if QB's can step up into the pocket and have time to deliver the ball. The 2015 playoff run is what sticks in people's minds, and that pass rush got to the opposing QB's in a hurry with viscousness. That wasn't always the case during the regular season though. The 2017 D is still really good, but lacks that middle push. Ray coming back may help by freeing Walker to join the rotation inside, or by getting Shaq, Von, and Ray on the field at the same time. Even lacking middle penetration, this D is plenty good enough to go far in the playoffs if the other side of the ball could score.
                      This. Without that interior push, the outside rush gets negated pretty easily.
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