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A look at starting QBs in the league vis a vis Siemian

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Rancid View Post
    Doesn't matter Sam! I am off the TS Bandwagon because it has a flat tire.

    I'm not an offensive coordinator nor a coach, but I do know pathetic football when I see it and regardless of what the defense is showing, the Broncos offense does not seem to have an answer. What the offense does seem to do consistently is run a narrow range of plays which opposing defenses are openly stating they can anticipate. In that narrow range of plays we have a QB that has started 19-games that has shown sometimes he can make a play-- yet other times he scrambles backwards for 15. I don't see any other QB's in the league, particularly those with > 20-starts, running backwards for 15 because the defense is in a Tampa 2. Do you?
    Just trying to engage you on your comments about routes. Sorry to have disturbed you.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • #62
      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
      Just trying to engage you on your comments about routes. Sorry to have disturbed you.
      Yea, that's the thing about posting is it is sometimes difficult to telegraph a comment in parallel with someone else rather than opposition and I did not put anything in my comment to telegraph my intention of wanting to be parallel and came across in opposition-- Sorry Sam. I don't think it matters what coverage the defenses run; Siemian is flustered and it all breaks down. Sometimes he cannot make a play because parts of the O-Line are paper, but he sucks at throwing the ball away to avoid a sack, or making a dump-off pass and it is not unreasonable to expect a guy with 20-starts to be able to do that.
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      • #63
        Originally posted by Rancid View Post
        Yea, that's the thing about posting is it is sometimes difficult to telegraph a comment in parallel with someone else rather than opposition and I did not put anything in my comment to telegraph my intention of wanting to be parallel and came across in opposition-- Sorry Sam. I don't think it matters what coverage the defenses run; Siemian is flustered and it all breaks down. Sometimes he cannot make a play because parts of the O-Line are paper, but he sucks at throwing the ball away to avoid a sack, or making a dump-off pass and it is not unreasonable to expect a guy with 20-starts to be able to do that.
        He should play better.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • #64
          Originally posted by samparnell View Post
          Just answer the question and we can have a conversation. Otherwise it sounds like you are telling me to shut up and go away.
          I'm saying no such thing sam, I'm just seeing nothing productive happening here and I'm not going to get in a long drawn out argument. You are just taking everything literal and acting like I'm saying things that I am not. First it was I said that the playbook was basically a college playbook so you started trying to get me to tell you whose playbook it was. Then I point out that the majority of the plays used (and we used a heck of a lot of option plays) were college based plays (not one specific college offense, just an amalgam of college schemes) So now you are saying that I'm implying that the only thing we ran was the option. Of course it wasn't, but it was very prevalent.

          Maybe I'm wrong, just comes across as you attempting to bicker over word choices and it's not conducive to a positive conversation. I apologize if i've misread the situation.
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          • #65
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            He should play better.
            You'll find very few people that would argue against that at this point. A good portion of the team needs to play better, but he for sure needs to step his game up asap.
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            • #66
              Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
              I'm saying no such thing sam, I'm just seeing nothing productive happening here and I'm not going to get in a long drawn out argument. You are just taking everything literal and acting like I'm saying things that I am not. First it was I said that the playbook was basically a college playbook so you started trying to get me to tell you whose playbook it was. Then I point out that the majority of the plays used (and we used a heck of a lot of option plays) were college based plays (not one specific college offense, just an amalgam of college schemes) So now you are saying that I'm implying that the only thing we ran was the option. Of course it wasn't, but it was very prevalent.

              Maybe I'm wrong, just comes across as you attempting to bicker over word choices and it's not conducive to a positive conversation. I apologize if i've misread the situation.
              Your theory of the success of the 2011 rushing attack was that it was a college offense running Option for which opposing defenses were not prepared. I asked if you were saying all the run plays were Option. You said they weren't, but used a fair amount of Option. Good answer.

              Denver's rushing attack in 2011 included:

              ~ Plays run from Spread Gun most of which were Option;

              ~ Plays run from Pistol some of which, maybe about half, were Option;

              ~ Plays run from Single Wing none of which were Option;

              ~ Plays run from Double Wing and other Single Back Formations none of which were Option;

              ~ Plays run from the I only a few of which were Option;

              ~ Plays run from Spread Empty none of which were Option;

              ~ Plays run from Tandem Tackle Over Unbalanced Line under and gun a small number of which were of which were Option.

              In the History of Football Xs & Os, I don't know of one team at any level that used all those formations and plays in one season. The only one that is similar were the Niners teams coordinated by Greg Roman. If you or anyone else know of a team that did all that stuff, let me know, since I'd be interested in looking into it.

              The passing attack in 2011 wasn't good, so it seems the decision was made to run the ball every conceivable way. The fact that it was installed after game five is noteworthy from a football point-of-view.

              The division road games that year are interesting because three completely different game plans were implemented as far as the rushing attack was concerned.

              At the Raiders on 6 November, Denver had the QB run the ball, but they also used some unbalanced line. Willis McGahee had a 60 yard TD run from the short side of an unbalanced line. He had 163 yards on 20 attempts and two TDs.

              At KC the following week, Denver rushed 55 times and only threw 8 passes. They used very little Option and ran mostly from Double Wing, the I and Spread Gun Empty. They had to overcome injuries that caused McGahee and Moreno to leave the game. Lance Ball finished as the leading rusher with 96 yards.

              At San Diego on 27 November, Denver used mostly Spread Option which Tebow had run in college. Denver rushed for over 200 yards and Tebow was 50% passing with a TD.

              So, in the month of November 2011, Denver defeated their Division opponents on the road running the ball, but using three very different game plans due to the variety of their playbook. During those three games, they outrushed the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers 751 to 419.

              I found it all very interesting from a football point-of-view. In fact, I charted the plays and posted a report for most of the games after the switch. That's why when the subject of the 2011 offense comes up, I look forward to having a good football conversation about it with those who like to study and analyze the game.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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