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  • #16
    Originally posted by diesel51 View Post
    Here is the problem I have with blaming the coaching and wanting to bench Trevor Siemian.

    According to what has transpired in the past four games, defenses are stacking the box where we cannot run the ball, our offense's biggest strength. Then they are forcing us to pass. In order to beat this, we need to be able to go deep a time or two to make the defense play more honest. However, in order to go deep, the offensive line has to block longer. The offensive line's weakness is pass blocking, so the longer they are asked to block, the more likely they are going to get beaten or get an offensive holding call. This causes Trevor to get beaten up, which in turn makes him skittish and causes him to make worse decisions with the ball.

    What kind of plays can McCoy call that changes this? What run plays can he call that our offensive line can execute more effectively against a stacked box? I mean a 3 and out is a 3 and out whether it is 3 runs and out or 3 passes and out or anything in between.

    And how is Brock going to be any better if he's forced to do the same things Trevor is asked to do? Does he have a stronger arm? I think he does, but is his decision making better? Not really. And he'll have the same Offensive Line blocking for him and the same stacked box.

    I'm not against change, just I don't want to see change for change's sake. It needs to solve a problem. Tell me how your changes are going to solve the problems?
    The greatest rushing attacks in NFL History were series-based. They all start with a base play that is well repped by the offense against every possible front. It's a bread and butter play in which the team has confidence. It must be practiced all the time so that execution is near perfect each time it is run. The idea is to run that play and force the defense to adjust in order to stop it, and then to attack the adjustments. The base play and the companion plays which attack the adjustments are the Series.

    Vince Lombardi had the Sweep Series at Green Bay. Some call it the Power Sweep, but it was actually zone blocked. There were about five plays he used to attack the adjustments to the Sweep.

    Chuck Noll used every conceivable Trap play in what you could call the Trap Series. It included Guard Hole Trap, Tackle Trap, Long Trap and Front Trap.

    Joe Gibbs said he stole the idea for his Counter Series from Tom Osborne. The Counter Gap/Ace/Deuce/Trey had to be set up by a play to the Tackle/TE hole. As in any angle blocked play, the idea is to outnumber the D at POA. It was usually Off Tackle/G Power that attacked the right. He tended to use an H-Back in motion instead of a Fullback. That way he could flip the strength of the formation by using motion. Long time Bronco fans will remember Gibbs' Counter Series from Super Bowl XXII.

    So, IMO, McCoy needs to cultivate a series-based rushing attack. It requires patience. Another thing they might want to consider is line splits. Denver's O-Line seems to have wider splits on pass plays and then tighten up for run plays. D must line up on the O, so splits can dictate how wide or tight the D is. They might try some irregular line splits. This could be done in conjunction with FB/H-Back involved in certain plays.

    Denver has a lot of angle blocked plays, but they still use zone steps. Zone can be mixed in to take advantage of a defensive shift. Effective use of series runs helps PAP.
    Last edited by samparnell; 10-25-2017, 03:03 PM.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • #17
      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
      The greatest rushing attacks in NFL History were series-based. They all start with a base play that is well repped by the offense against every possible front. It's a bread and butter play in which the team has confidence. It must be practiced all the time so that execution is near perfect each time it is run. The idea is to run that play and force the defense to adjust in order to stop it, and then to attack the adjustments. The base play and the companion plays which attack the adjustments are the Series.

      Vince Lombardi had the Sweep Series at Green Bay. Some call it the Power Sweep, but it was actually zone blocked. There were about five plays he used to attack the adjustments to the Sweep.

      Chuck Noll used every conceivable Trap play in what you could call the Trap Series. It included Guard Hole Trap, Tackle Trap, Long Trap and Front Trap.

      Joe Gibbs said he stole the idea for his Counter Series from Tom Osborne. The Counter Gap/Ace/Deuce/Trey had to be set up by a play to the Tackle/TE hole. As in any angle blocked play, the idea is to outnumber the D at POA. It was usually Off Tackle/G Power that attacked the right. He tended to use an H-Back in motion instead of a Fullback. That way he could flip the strength of the formation by using motion. Long time Bronco fans will remember Gibbs' Counter Series from Super Bowl XXII.

      So, IMO, McCoy needs to cultivate a series-based rushing attack. It requires patience. Another thing they might want to consider is line splits. Denver's O-Line seems to have wider splits on pass plays and then tighten up for run plays. D must line up on the O, so splits can dictate how wide or tight the D is. They might try some irregular line splits. This could be done in conjunction with FB/H-Back involved in certain plays.

      Denver has a lot of angle blocked plays, but they still use zone steps. Zone can be mixed in to take advantage of a defensive shift. Effective use of series runs helps PAP.

      Perfectly Said thus this what concerns me is the play calling I started another thread about the play calling and why are they not doing sweeps left sweeps right or a lot of rb screens why are the calling on a third and short a bomb to DT knowing that he is triple covered?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
        Perfectly Said thus this what concerns me is the play calling I started another thread about the play calling and why are they not doing sweeps left sweeps right or a lot of rb screens why are the calling on a third and short a bomb to DT knowing that he is triple covered?
        RB screens only work against specific defensive looks, mainly aggressive defenses, if teams are getting there rushing 3 or 4 and they're not blitzing then you've got LBs there specifically watching the backs. Also against teams sitting as close to the LOS as most do against Denver there's no space between the layers of defense to create room for the screen.

        KC plays a lot of man coverage, and they like to bring heat, depending on the pressures the screen passes could be there, but if their blitzes have their LBs blitzing and engaging the backs (a run blitz) then it's not a good call.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
          To me this game has all of the makings of the Giants v Broncos game in reverse. We'll have spent a better part of a week talking about how the offense has no chance and how angry the Chefs are and how this game is going to not even be close. If Denver goes in with a very simplified game plan they come out with the win. It won't be pretty, it'll end 17-13 or so, but I think this is one of those games that leaves people shaking their heads.
          I hate to sound so pessimistic but, this has almost no chance of happening. Nothing is impossible but, I think it is highly unlikely.

          The Chiefs have 10 days to prepare and Andy Reid is a much better coach than VJ, that I am certain of.
          The Chiefs are at home.. always a very difficult place for the Broncos to get a win no matter the season.
          The Chiefs are coming off of a two game losing streak and just lost to the Raiders.. no way they lose a 3rd game at home to a divisional opponent.
          The Chiefs are a much better team right now.
          The Chiefs have a good franchise QB... something the Broncos are not even close to having.

          I could go on and on but, what is the point... we all know this stuff. Again, it is always possible but, the odds are probably about slim and slimmer. I do not think the Broncos are a very good team right now and I think the Chiefs are a pretty good team... and good teams do not lose important games at home especially after they just lost an important game to a divisional opponent in some bizarre fashion.
          The Chiefs will be ready to play and I think it won't even be close. The score will be like 35-7 or something like that.

          I will happily eat my crow and take whatever heat you want to throw my way if I end up being wrong and Denver wins Monday night. It will be so worth it.
          My adopted Bronco is Case Keenum

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          • #20
            I'm concerned that if the defense plays well and the offense craps the bed again, the locker room might fracture. The defense was pissed off last week. And you could tell they were pissed at the offense. Not good.
            Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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            • #21
              I am starting to turn on Vance. Think he needs to find another franchise to work for
              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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              • #22
                Originally posted by KansasKrista View Post
                I hate to sound so pessimistic but, this has almost no chance of happening. Nothing is impossible but, I think it is highly unlikely.

                The Chiefs have 10 days to prepare and Andy Reid is a much better coach than VJ, that I am certain of.
                The Chiefs are at home.. always a very difficult place for the Broncos to get a win no matter the season.
                The Chiefs are coming off of a two game losing streak and just lost to the Raiders.. no way they lose a 3rd game at home to a divisional opponent.
                The Chiefs are a much better team right now.
                The Chiefs have a good franchise QB... something the Broncos are not even close to having.

                I could go on and on but, what is the point... we all know this stuff. Again, it is always possible but, the odds are probably about slim and slimmer. I do not think the Broncos are a very good team right now and I think the Chiefs are a pretty good team... and good teams do not lose important games at home especially after they just lost an important game to a divisional opponent in some bizarre fashion.
                The Chiefs will be ready to play and I think it won't even be close. The score will be like 35-7 or something like that.

                I will happily eat my crow and take whatever heat you want to throw my way if I end up being wrong and Denver wins Monday night. It will be so worth it.
                We'll see, but I don't think the Chefs are nearly as good as their early record indicated, and the Chefs lose home games they shouldn't every single year. Not too mention other than a great start this year, most believed the "good franchise QB" was a QB that could never win, and the Chefs traded up to pick his replacement because of it. The only thing I agree with is that Andy Reid on extended time is pretty good. But I wouldn't call him a great coach because he has no awareness of time in a game.

                KC's defense is 29th overall in yards, 28th against the pass, 25th against the run, tied for 20th in points against per game, tied for 15th in sacks.

                KC's defense is almost as poor as Denver's offense. So you've got a poor O v a poor D and a very good O against a very good D.

                This game isn't the mismatch people think, if Denver's defense stays disciplined, the game is close and they have a chance to win.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                  I'm concerned that if the defense plays well and the offense craps the bed again, the locker room might fracture. The defense was pissed off last week. And you could tell they were pissed at the offense. Not good.

                  Sanders did an interview this week where he pretty much called out Siemian. The fracture isn't an O v D thing, it's a everyone v the coaching staff thing if Siemian doesn't get results or they don't change QBs soon thing.

                  Sanders did also go after the o-line a little bit, but when Tyler Polumbus asked him if the receivers were failing to get open, he said the defenses were playing zone coverage against them, the QB needs to make a read and get rid of the ball. So the people arguing that the locker room will get upset because they think Siemian is their best chance to win might be 100% wrong.

                  https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/...bronco-offense

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                    I am starting to turn on Vance. Think he needs to find another franchise to work for

                    Right now he works in Denver, and probably will for at least 16-26 more games (obviously more if they start winning) so it's probably better to hope that he grows into the job quickly, because he'll be here for the foreseeable future.

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                    • #25
                      The chiefs have so much big play potential especially on special teams that I think this might be the game that gets away from us. The blow out that forces change. I hope I’m wrong and I really hope we just punt the ball out of bounds. The defense will do what they can but giving up another TD or great field posistion on special teams may be the killer on top of a no show offense on top of the chiefs crowd that might cuase the defense to give up come 4th quarter.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
                        So I just read an ESPN article that goes on to say Coach VJ trusts his offense will break out of the funk however they best be ready because this KC Team can produce some points. I am just a little bit concerned that VJ or McCoy are unwilling to make the needed changes to produce a win or even a first down or to even cross the 50 yard mark on the field.

                        http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-bron...unk-on-offense
                        I don’t know what to think. If I had to guess (and guessing is what makes anyone great), Trevor is able to anticipate his open receivers against our practice zone defense. However, come game time with live bullets, he becomes a deer in the headlights. Maybe VJ is making the quantum leap that “one day soon” Trevor will play in a game how he practices.

                        Whether that happens or not is anyone’s guess. The hope is…at least some of it will.

                        "We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
                        To infinity...and beyond.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          Sanders did an interview this week where he pretty much called out Siemian. The fracture isn't an O v D thing, it's a everyone v the coaching staff thing if Siemian doesn't get results or they don't change QBs soon thing.

                          Sanders did also go after the o-line a little bit, but when Tyler Polumbus asked him if the receivers were failing to get open, he said the defenses were playing zone coverage against them, the QB needs to make a read and get rid of the ball. So the people arguing that the locker room will get upset because they think Siemian is their best chance to win might be 100% wrong.




                          https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/...bronco-offense

                          This is very interesting. A Tale Tale Sign?

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                          • #28
                            VJ is a softie! I think this is the time when you know what kind of coach you have. I remember his face on the sidelines when we were playing so well in the first two weeks, then in the subsequent games he looked like he was confused, almost scared at the direction the dame was going down. It is easy to be the HC of a team that just wins (e.g. Patriots) but it takes a good HS to take a team from the worst to first (or top 10), that is when you know if you have a good HC. I also can't stand hearing him talk because you know he is just telling us coach's speak and not necessarily the truth. I just tune it out.
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            My new favorite Bronco - KJ Hamler Guy plays inspiring football!.

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                            • #29
                              the more VJ speaks, the more I dislike.

                              Just another under qualified HC candidate.

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                              • #30
                                I tune out TS and Coach VJ when they try to attack my Facebook Live Feed lol ! The reason is they say the same thing over and over like we had a Great Practice on Wednesday and TS says I have to play better well you have been saying that the past 4 weeks in a row.

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