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  • Post game --- Broncos and Eagles

    Being only an hour or so North of Philly, that was painful to watch and will be even more painful to listen to for the next few days from the Eagles fans, but I sat there and watched it until I actually fell asleep in the second half! We started to move the ball on the first drive, and even though we settled for a field goal I told my wife "who knows, maybe Osweiler will be fired up enough to prove he is the guy", but reality quickly set in and the rest is history. My wife remarked how quiet I was during the game, and couldn't believe that I actually fell asleep, but the facts are that we aren't very good, aren't going anywhere but down, the team is a train wreck right now, I see it, I admit it, that's the reality of it and I wish I had a better outlook on it but I've watched this team since 1973 and right now they just don't hold my interest, I still care and root for them but the emotion coming from me is just about none......

  • #2
    wow, and you will get 2 weeks of it as the Eagles are on a bye i believe. I feel for you.

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    • #3
      Hope the Broncos can change the headlines next week with a win over the Pats.

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      • #4
        Might as well get comfortable, we've really only just started the losing.
        Superbowl 50 Champions!

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        • #5
          I think and being honest. Maybe one more win this season and a top 5 pick.

          We suffer this season. Lose a lot of players. And live through a lot of speculation pre draft.
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by colowoz View Post
            Hope the Broncos can change the headlines next week with a win over the Pats.
            IDK I think they need to beat the Jets and Browns to either Darnold or Mayfield! It pains me to say so but this QB carousel is ludicrous and offensive already.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
              I think and being honest. Maybe one more win this season and a top 5 pick.

              We suffer this season. Lose a lot of players. And live through a lot of speculation pre draft.
              If that one W would just land on the P*ts game, we could take a tiny bit of satisfaction from that, and it would make their trolls easier to deal with.

              Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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              • #8
                The answer: It's the O-Line stupid!

                I get it. The Broncos look baaaaaaad. How far we have fallen.... But with everyone calling for yet another QB change, or firing of coaches from the OC and DC to Vance himself, I think we need to accurately diagnose the problem and make sure our intervention is on target.

                So, without further ado, I present to you the perpetrator of our fall from grace - The O-Line.

                No doubt this is not news to anyone here. But I think it's worth examining just how bad this unit is and considering the impact on this team as a whole. Lets look at this a bit closer:

                1) First, I think let's establish that O-line play in the NFL is important. It's what makes the offense go, makes it work, and basically allows you to have an offensive gameplay. Without it....well.....lets look at what one paper said about this. The Chicago Tribune thinks O-line play in the NFL is worsening all around and this is making the games that we watch on Sunday abysmal. This from a recent article they published:

                The problem is the nature of how offenses have bogged down. It is one thing for a stout defense to thwart passable offensive execution. It is another when defensive lines are shoving offensive linemen five yards into the backfield and ruining any semblance of offensive play design. It makes games painful to watch - it stops looking like football and starts looking like survival. In too many games, possessions unfolded as spasms of panic capped with a punt.
                http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...913-story.html

                Sound familiar? I think it's interesting that the Tribune is calling out the entire NFL for this, but it's worth considering that the Broncos are near the worst of the worst here. And that's saying something apparently. So how has that impacted us?

                2) People have been calling for the benching of Trevor Siemien and they finally got it. Brock-vember was here! And he had full command of the playbook too! And it was like it was meant to be! And he was plan A all along anyway! And he was going to save our season! After all, he helped us reach a Super Bowl at one point right? So here he comes, in on a white horse, and none too soon either, right? Wrong. Brock was almost thoroughly forgettable in his re-debut with the Broncos. In fact, it would have been forgettable had he not looked so bad by throwing ill-advised picks or airing it out for otherwise open receivers. But why are both Siemien and Brock struggling and is there reason to hope with yet another QB change we could be better (I'm looking at you Pirate)? Probably not. Let's consider: the Broncos currently have the 29th ranked pass protection in the league, they've given up 28 sacks (3rd worst in the league behind only the 49ers and the Colts) and allowed 52 QB hits (10th worst in the league). Further, according to the stats the Broncos have entirely stopped relying on their right end of the O-line for anything (runs etc).

                http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
                http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...=PASSING_QBHIT

                It really looks like whoever we put back there, unless they can get out of the pocket and throw it away, we are going to see poor QB play from that position until we fix our O-Line. And might Elway and Co. be reflecting back to other young QB careers that were derailed by tons of abuse (David Carr anyone?)

                3) Ok, so maybe we just need a shift, we need to focus on establishing the run. And Denver's run offense has been decent at times (although nonexistent lately). Sounds ok until you look at the data. You win in the NFL by passing. Pure and simple. We turn to analytics to explain this in more detail (probably at risk of losing some here what with linear regression models being referenced and such, just take the big take home points - rushing well doesn't correlate to winning).

                When it comes to winning in the NFL, passing is king. Rushing hardly matters.
                https://thepowerrank.com/2014/01/10/...-the-playoffs/

                4) It was even (ridiculously) suggested that the blame should go to our defense over the past few weeks (admittedly, a little blame is deserved for a 51 point shellacking today, but who hasn't been shellacked once or twice in their life). I call bull on this. Our defense is the reason we won the past 3 seasons at all, and it was primarily responsible for our SB win. But it gets old after awhile. Defenses get tired of pulling it out. John Lynch apparently related this to some of the NFL commentators about the old Tampa defense and how they would get on themselves for allowing 10 or 12 points and losing the game. But after awhile, he said, the defense just gets tired of not having any offensive production. John Lynch's musings aside, the offense really does affect the defense:

                https://scout.com/nfl/denver-broncos...eawa-109411390

                5) Our line is bad, bad, bad. Why? While it's tempting to focus on player or scheme/coaching, it's probably a little bit of everything. For starters, our talent is bad. Our best players (Bolles and Paradis) are rated as average players. There rest are bad. Garcia, Barber, Watson, Stevenson are horrible. They have no right starting on an offensive line in the NFL in 2017. And remember, this in the context of an o-line famine according to the article above. Even in that setting, we have some bad players.

                https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl...ncos/10/roster

                So, with everyone calling for another QB, calling for Vance's head, calling for a new OC, let's focus on where it counts. The one thing we could do to turn things around is get some quality players. It unfortunately happens to be probably the hardest thing to pursue right now as well. We should be scouring everywhere we can think of to find O-line talent right now and with that top 10 pick we are most likely going to get, let's not go QB, lets go O-line.
                To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

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                • #9
                  You got a great point, one of the biggest issues with the team and never been properly addressed for 3 years now.

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                  • #10
                    TE production

                    Was watching Miami play tonight and was thinking how Thomas is missed. Since he left we've not had good production from the TE position.

                    Virgil Green has been a minimal factor in the pass game his time here, and Derby is also very meh. We really need a type of guy like a Travis Kelce for this team and TE has been nonexistent overall.

                    We let Thomas walk why again? When Peyton played those two together were lights out.

                    I mean considering all the other problems this team has had its not top of the concerns but definitely a factor worth noting IMO.

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                    • #11
                      To be fair, we've had a pretty average offensive line for a lot longer than 3 years, least we forget how we were dismantled in Super Bowl 48.

                      It's amazing how much a hall of fame quarterback can cover those deficiencies.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                        To be fair, we've had a pretty average offensive line for a lot longer than 3 yeaes
                        Yes, very true, but I'm not saying we have an average offensive line right now, it's bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
                        To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          To be fair, we've had a pretty average offensive line for a lot longer than 3 yeaes
                          True but it was at least decent under Manning till 2015, and well also a guy like PM can make a lot happen with those shortcomings vs most others.

                          Yes though before it became absolutely an apparent problem with the team its been a weaker unit for several years till now its hit rock bottom.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Humberg View Post
                            Yes, very true, but I'm not saying we have an average offensive line right now, it's bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
                            It's bad because teams don't respect the pass play and the quarterbacks are below average.

                            By no means am I saying the line is great but it looks worse I think because of the quarterback. And to be fair they have tried to address it but again, you don't have a good enough quarterback to read the pass rush it doesn't matter.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lange View Post
                              Was watching Miami play tonight and was thinking how Thomas is missed. Since he left we've not had good production from the TE position.

                              Virgil Green has been a minimal factor in the pass game his time here, and Derby is also very meh. We really need a type of guy like a Travis Kelce for this team and TE has been nonexistent overall.

                              We let Thomas walk why again? When Peyton played those two together were lights out.

                              I mean considering all the other problems this team has had its not top of the concerns but definitely a factor worth noting IMO.
                              31 teams would love to Kelce, but.. yes TE is on the long list of problems...

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