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  • #61
    Listening to the Fan today some talking head ( not Klis) said the story around Dove Valley is John thinks we are not that far away from a very good team ( no eye rolls etc) and is looking for a good rb, wr, o line help in the daft and pick up a FA QB . If so I am loving it. Any QB in the draft is a long shot & would probably take a yr or 2 to develop into a starter. Can you imagine if we got a top 3 or 4 QB and he wasn't able to start next year? Even Goff & Wentz took a couple of years to show up. With a QB in FA, we have a ton more options especially with a 3rd to 4th pick every round. And I am leaning toward keeping most of the coaching staff although I would hope maybe a new o line & special teams coach would happen. And another "rumor" is John is asking some veteran front office talent & former coaches what they would do. And please John get rid of most of your college scouting staff & even Matt Russell. We need some adults in the room who aren't afraid to disagree with John. I am reading a great book on Sam Walton & how retail big box stores developed & it was awesome to see how the big guys ( Sears & K Mart) blew it and how Sam killed it. Sears & Kmart were way too conservative and slow to jump on tech to grow. Sam was a cheap sob, but when convinced he spent the big bucks on computers etc to gain an advantage. He was always on the look out for new talent & poached them from other companies. You ask what the hell does this have to do with football? Plenty, maybe John should bring in real talent in the scouting dept who will tell him he is wrong.
    Bronco Bob

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    • #62
      Originally posted by bfallona View Post
      Listening to the Fan today some talking head ( not Klis) said the story around Dove Valley is John thinks we are not that far away from a very good team ( no eye rolls etc) and is looking for a good rb, wr, o line help in the daft and pick up a FA QB . If so I am loving it. Any QB in the draft is a long shot & would probably take a yr or 2 to develop into a starter. Can you imagine if we got a top 3 or 4 QB and he wasn't able to start next year? Even Goff & Wentz took a couple of years to show up. With a QB in FA, we have a ton more options especially with a 3rd to 4th pick every round. And I am leaning toward keeping most of the coaching staff although I would hope maybe a new o line & special teams coach would happen. And another "rumor" is John is asking some veteran front office talent & former coaches what they would do. And please John get rid of most of your college scouting staff & even Matt Russell. We need some adults in the room who aren't afraid to disagree with John. I am reading a great book on Sam Walton & how retail big box stores developed & it was awesome to see how the big guys ( Sears & K Mart) blew it and how Sam killed it. Sears & Kmart were way too conservative and slow to jump on tech to grow. Sam was a cheap sob, but when convinced he spent the big bucks on computers etc to gain an advantage. He was always on the look out for new talent & poached them from other companies. You ask what the hell does this have to do with football? Plenty, maybe John should bring in real talent in the scouting dept who will tell him he is wrong.
      Which FA QB though? What we don't need is another 2 or 3 year short term solution that puts the team right back in the same position it's in now. I don't know what you mean by keeping most of the coaching staff, but VJ has to go. He simply isn't ready to be a HC.

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      • #63
        I’d like to see us win at least one more just so we can break this hideous, un-Bronco-like losing streak. Don’t want that carrying into next year (see Browns, Cleveland). Plus- we’ve seen 4-12 not all that long ago (2010) and know it is possible to make it all the way back from there...

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Southern Bronco View Post
          I’d like to see us win at least one more just so we can break this hideous, un-Bronco-like losing streak. Don’t want that carrying into next year (see Browns, Cleveland). Plus- we’ve seen 4-12 not all that long ago (2010) and know it is possible to make it all the way back from there...
          We need to lose out if we want to pick one of the major qbs without giving up additional draft picks to do it. Even if we lose out that may not happen.

          Every day that VJ is the Head Coach tells me this team is not serious about winning and allows me to not really care about the losing streak we on
          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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          • #65
            Originally posted by bfallona View Post
            Listening to the Fan today some talking head ( not Klis) said the story around Dove Valley is John thinks we are not that far away from a very good team ( no eye rolls etc) and is looking for a good rb, wr, o line help in the daft and pick up a FA QB . If so I am loving it. Any QB in the draft is a long shot & would probably take a yr or 2 to develop into a starter. Can you imagine if we got a top 3 or 4 QB and he wasn't able to start next year? Even Goff & Wentz took a couple of years to show up. With a QB in FA, we have a ton more options especially with a 3rd to 4th pick every round. And I am leaning toward keeping most of the coaching staff although I would hope maybe a new o line & special teams coach would happen. And another "rumor" is John is asking some veteran front office talent & former coaches what they would do. And please John get rid of most of your college scouting staff & even Matt Russell. We need some adults in the room who aren't afraid to disagree with John. I am reading a great book on Sam Walton & how retail big box stores developed & it was awesome to see how the big guys ( Sears & K Mart) blew it and how Sam killed it. Sears & Kmart were way too conservative and slow to jump on tech to grow. Sam was a cheap sob, but when convinced he spent the big bucks on computers etc to gain an advantage. He was always on the look out for new talent & poached them from other companies. You ask what the hell does this have to do with football? Plenty, maybe John should bring in real talent in the scouting dept who will tell him he is wrong.
            Or maybe dosent deserve his job... I mean what qualifications does he REALLY HAVE? There are people who have been in the office for years that didn't get a shot, but we gave it to Elway because he handed the ball of to TD for two years on the way to a SB
            -Bronco in UT


            While I both agree and disagree with many posts in this thread I have to lean towards champ on this one. Jay really needs to learn how to manage the game better, and also to learn that you don't have to go for the big play EVERY time on every drive. There is something to be said to check the ball down and live to fight another day. -Great Post Cut the Excuses out please. sigh...

            Helll of a post

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Broncos65 View Post
              At this point, I'd like to see us get as high of a draft pick as possible. Not saying we'll purposely lose out, but it just might happen anyway. Should we lose on purpose? Do teams do that to get a higher pick? We have so many needs we need to get in the top 5 for sure. Hope they don't mess that up too!
              The lure of a high pick has its appeal.

              But never...NEVER cheer for a loss. That is how you get a losing culture to sink in. thinking of losing as acceptable...even preferable...would truly destroy anything that is left of this team.
              sigpic

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
                I’ll say it. Deliberately lose the rest of our games.

                Bench all of our stars so they don’t risk injury. Play the rookies. Keep McKenzie in there until he learns to hold onto the ball.

                Any win we get in the next five games hurts the franchise. We get a worse pick and it increases the chance VJ stays.

                There’s a very real chance we get the number 3 pick if we lose out. Elway might use his friendship Lynch to trade to #2 for a non-bears price. And maybe we have Darnold as our franchise QB.

                It just baffles me how people on the board are getting angry about losses at this point.
                Intentionally playing to lose, would hurt this team far FAR more than sliding down a few slots in the draft.
                sigpic

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                  Cutler is a bad QB. It's just that our defense is pretty bad this year as well. Remember this is the Cutler that got shut out twice this season. We are just that garbage this year.
                  Broncos Defense..

                  Total = 5th
                  Pass = 4th
                  Rush = 5th

                  Broncos D, is the *only* defense in the NFL in the top 5 in all 3 categories.


                  The defense is not "pretty bad". they are actually very good. The problem, is that other teams consistently get short fields due to turnovers and poor special teams.

                  The Broncos are 31st in turnover ratio, at -16. We are 31st with 18 int's, we are tied for 30th with 9 fumbles. I dont have the stat on hand, but I think the Broncos are leading the league in points allowed on turnovers, with something like 124.

                  That right there, that statline, (turnovers) THAT is why we are losing. That. is why we give up points. It isnt too hard for even average offenses to score points when they start on the opponents 40 half the time, nor does it help we predictably turn the ball over in our own redzone seemingly at LEAST once a game.

                  The D isnt playing with the same heart they did, even earlier this season. That is true. But they are not even close, to being bad, or the reason we arent winning.
                  sigpic

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                  • #69
                    I like MH_stampede... he's good, real good
                    -Bronco in UT


                    While I both agree and disagree with many posts in this thread I have to lean towards champ on this one. Jay really needs to learn how to manage the game better, and also to learn that you don't have to go for the big play EVERY time on every drive. There is something to be said to check the ball down and live to fight another day. -Great Post Cut the Excuses out please. sigh...

                    Helll of a post

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                      Cutler is a bad QB. It's just that our defense is pretty bad this year as well. Remember this is the Cutler that got shut out twice this season. We are just that garbage this year.
                      Don't want to spend too much time defending Cutler. lol But, just wanted to clarify that Moore was the quarterback for the other shutout.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by MH Stampede View Post
                        The lure of a high pick has its appeal.

                        But never...NEVER cheer for a loss. That is how you get a losing culture to sink in. thinking of losing as acceptable...even preferable...would truly destroy anything that is left of this team.
                        This sometimes becomes almost an ethical discussion....which it really should not. If a fan wants his/her team to lose, in order to land a BIG fish, so be it. There are no rules on what is right when it comes to fan choice. I for one have enjoyed what has happened in draft seasons as a result of bad performance the prior year, not just with The Broncos, but in many different sports I follow. If my team is far out of the playoffs and some great players are awaiting the draft, as long as my teams are trying, I have no difficulty or loss of sleep for accepting a losing season. There is a reason for performing poorly, and in parity leagues, there is often a fix.

                        In fact, some of the great teams in sports underwent several terrible seasons (or more), and eventually built up such draft capital that they turned their organizations around for many, many years....and went on to win championships. In that regard, almost the worst thing is to keep finishing mid pack, and getting mid pack draft choices. They are good players often, but not necessarily game changers.

                        The one thing most of us will agree to.....you never throw a game. In fact, I find it hard to believe any player would play soft, in order to help lose. On the contrary, many teams use the opportunity late in the season to try out young players. It is a developmental move, and heck, if other teams are doing it, you may not be smart by playing your best, even if wounded. Makes little sense.

                        OK....I do see why it is a good thing....it provides paying fans with a better squad, and lets them see all their favs on the field. BUT, if you get to see a few young bucks who are going to play in the future, and they are replacing slightly injured vets, it's not a big deal to me. And truth is, sometimes they win as well.

                        But though I am sure many here are not in favour of playing young folks, and appearing to be tanking, I see it as a win win win when it comes to player development, player health and draft potential....after all, many other teams do it.
                        Last edited by CanDB; 12-09-2017, 10:17 AM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          This sometimes becomes almost an ethical discussion....which it really should not. If a fan wants his team to lose, in order to land a BIG fish, so be it. There are no rules on what is right when it comes to fan choice. I for one have enjoyed what has happened in draft seasons as a result of bad performance the prior year, not just with The Broncos, but in many different sports I follow. If my team is far out of the playoffs and some great players are awaiting the draft, as long as my teams are trying, I have no difficulty or loss of sleep for accepting a losing season. There is a reason for performing poorly, and in parity leagues, there is often a fix.

                          In fact, some of the great teams in sports underwent several terrible seasons (or more), and eventually built up such draft capital that they turned their organizations around for many, many years....and went on to win championships. In that regard, almost the worst thing is to keep finishing mid pack, and getting mid pack draft choices. They are good players often, but not necessarily game changers.

                          The one thing most of us will agree to.....you never throw a game. In fact, I find it hard to believe any player would play soft, in order to help lose. On the contrary, many teams use the opportunity late in the season to try out young players. It is a developmental move, and heck, if other teams are doing it, you may not be smart by playing your best, even if wounded. Makes little sense.

                          OK....I do see why it is a good thing....it provides paying fans with a better squad, and lets them see all their favs on the field. BUT, if you get to see a few young bucks who are going to play in the future, and they are replacing slightly injured vets, it's not a big deal to me. And truth is, sometimes they win as well.

                          But though I am sure many here are not in favour of playing young folks, and appearing to be tanking, I see it as a win win win when it comes to player development, player health and draft potential....after all, many other teams do it.
                          That's the best point I've seen. Some of the best teams this season had low round picks two years ago, such as the Eagles, Rams, and Saints. Picking at the top of 7 rounds can work wonders for a team that needs a ton of help
                          Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                          • #73
                            Getting a high pick as the result of losing is a participation trophy/consolation prize, it's not the goal. Sorry, I want this historic losing streak to end ASAP.

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