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What's It Gonna Take?

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  • dgobronco
    replied
    It's pretty simple, just get an Elway/Manning/Brady/Rodgers, and you're relevant for 15 years. Sure, coaching matters, as we all saw with Shanahan > Reeves, but it's really more of the synergy between great QB, coach, and owner willing to fill in the pieces. That's where Indy perpetually falls down, and they were still good thanks to Manning. NE has all 3. Broncos had all 3 in the '96-98 years and again more recently (though the SB win was certainly with subpar QB play).

    This will be an interesting offseason. We have 2 first round needs - QB and Tackle. I expect 1 of them to be filled before the draft. There's really no other way to get back to the playoffs next year. Coaching, we'll see. Ownership is up in the air too, but the evidence does not yet indicate willingness to spend is a problem. If Tackle or QB goes unaddressed, then we do have an ownership problem.

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  • bronx_2003
    replied
    Originally posted by Denver Scores View Post
    The Patriots were 11-5 in 2008, when Tom Brady was on injured reserve and just could not figure out how to stop Miami's wildcat offense. Any other year, they would have made the playoffs with 11 wins.

    Also, how many games did the Patriots win with Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett last year? It seemed to me New England does not need Brady to look above decent on offense.
    11-5 in a terrible division.

    Didn't they lose 16-0 at home to Buffalo when Brissett had to start

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  • PunchDrunk
    replied
    A superstar quarterback would help. Maybe a good left tackle too.

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  • Denver Scores
    replied
    Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    BB is a very good coach but he needs to prove he can win once Brady retires if he wants to be in the GOAT conversation. People always list the best coaches as..... BB, Tomlin, McCarthy, etc....... but its no coincidence that they have the best QB's in the league.

    I think Kyle Shanahan is a pretty good coach but its no coincidence that they have started to win games now that JG is under center.
    The Patriots were 11-5 in 2008, when Tom Brady was on injured reserve and just could not figure out how to stop Miami's wildcat offense. Any other year, they would have made the playoffs with 11 wins.

    Also, how many games did the Patriots win with Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett last year? It seemed to me New England does not need Brady to look above decent on offense.

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  • SMR81
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncoholic JS View Post
    For us to be a dominant and elite team consistently for 15 years like the Patriots and Steelers? I'm not talking about 3-5 years of it here and there. A good solid run of 15 years of dominance.

    We have a young team that could do it with the right coaching. What needs to happen?
    It'll take a better support system for our QB.

    Trevor is going to need some more oline pieces and some fresh WR talent for next year. A stud RB in the 1st wouldn't hurt either.

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  • bronx_2003
    replied
    Originally posted by flosstein View Post
    Why would he need to prove that? Did Bill Walsh have to prove he could do it without Montana? Did Landry have to prove he could do it without Starbauch? I get that it’s hip to hate on NE for a variety of reasons. But just trying to find ways to discredit how great a job he’s done at the HC of that team is just wrong and reeks of sour grapes. BB has literally surpassed every great HC in league history. The GOAT conversations not only begins with him, but it ends with him as well.
    I don't dislike BB and he has done a great job, but the fact remains that his success has come with just one QB..... the QB that will probably go down as the GOAT, thats quite an advantage over other teams.

    I think coaches help but players make the team successful or not. PM took the Colts to 2 SB's and numerous AFC Championships despite a weak roster, the year he went down they claimed the #1 overall pick......... Pittsburgh sucked with Landry last year went Big Ben was injured, this year they are probably AFC championship game at least bound. Look at GB's record without AR this year. Kubiak struggled in Houston without a QB yet won a SB in Denver...... with PM

    If BB retires with Brady then the question of whether he could be successful without the greatest QB ever will never be answered.

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  • Hph5
    replied
    Originally posted by flosstein View Post
    Why would he need to prove that? Did Bill Walsh have to prove he could do it without Montana? Did Landry have to prove he could do it without Starbauch? I get that it’s hip to hate on NE for a variety of reasons. But just trying to find ways to discredit how great a job he’s done at the HC of that team is just wrong and reeks of sour grapes. BB has literally surpassed every great HC in league history. The GOAT conversations not only begins with him, but it ends with him as well.
    Maybe, but the fact remains, the great Belichick:lombardi: has just one playoff appearance without Brady. Coaches can only do so much without players.
    Last edited by Hph5; 12-19-2017, 10:09 AM. Reason: correction

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  • gerontion
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Facts? Ok Im just curious, how many coaches do you know of that Bill has scape goated before he made corrections?

    You can whine and ask for facts all you want but the question that was posed here was not what it took to win 3 super bowls but rather how do we create a 15 year dynasty.

    IMO it takes Consistency, minus the control freak attitude. Yes Bill is a control freak but it works for him because hes a very good coach that knows football better than Shanny and Elway at this point who both of which have scape goated coaches rather than allowing them to do their jobs.

    Now proceed to get mad and say that you disagree when there is no response for you to use, however I already know you do!
    Who's getting mad? You are stating opinions masked as facts. I'm simply not buying it. What coaches has Elway scapegoated? Fox? The same Fox who led this team to three straight embarrassing playoff defeats? He deserved to be fired. I guess Elway "scapegoated" Kubiak somehow because Gary retired for health reasons. I also guess Elway is "scapegoating" VJ by NOT firing him. Are you talking about Wade? That was simply a matter of money. McCoy? The offense sucked under McCoy and is somewhat better now under Musgrave. So, please tell me what coaches Elway has scapegoated.

    As far as Shanny, what coaches did he scapegoat? Oh, I know. He scapegoated the horrible Bob Slowik by NOT firing him.

    By the way, Belichick most definitely scapegoated his offensive line coach after the AFC title game in 2015. He was fired one day later.
    Last edited by gerontion; 12-17-2017, 06:20 PM.

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  • flosstein
    replied
    Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    BB is a very good coach but he needs to prove he can win once Brady retires if he wants to be in the GOAT conversation. People always list the best coaches as..... BB, Tomlin, McCarthy, etc....... but its no coincidence that they have the best QB's in the league.

    I think Kyle Shanahan is a pretty good coach but its no coincidence that they have started to win games now that JG is under center.
    Why would he need to prove that? Did Bill Walsh have to prove he could do it without Montana? Did Landry have to prove he could do it without Starbauch? I get that it’s hip to hate on NE for a variety of reasons. But just trying to find ways to discredit how great a job he’s done at the HC of that team is just wrong and reeks of sour grapes. BB has literally surpassed every great HC in league history. The GOAT conversations not only begins with him, but it ends with him as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by gerontion View Post
    I'm not bent. I just don't agree with your "opinion." You haven't stated any facts at all.
    Facts? Ok Im just curious, how many coaches do you know of that Bill has scape goated before he made corrections?

    You can whine and ask for facts all you want but the question that was posed here was not what it took to win 3 super bowls but rather how do we create a 15 year dynasty.

    IMO it takes Consistency, minus the control freak attitude. Yes Bill is a control freak but it works for him because hes a very good coach that knows football better than Shanny and Elway at this point who both of which have scape goated coaches rather than allowing them to do their jobs.

    Now proceed to get mad and say that you disagree when there is no response for you to use, however I already know you do!
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 12-17-2017, 05:52 PM.

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  • haciendadad
    replied
    Originally posted by gerontion View Post
    Ok. I think most of the great coaches have had good QBs around them. Lombardi had Starr. Landry had Staubach. Shula had Griese and Marino. Walsh had Montana.
    But those coaches has QBs after these top QBs and then those coaches looked pretty regular.

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  • gerontion
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Exactly but do you see difference between bill and our boys is that Bill does not scapegoat anyone. He identifies the problem and corrects it. He doesn’t keep failed draft picks in the team hoping to look like some sort of draft guru. He has put his team before himself and his ego.

    Don’t get bent Gero, just accept facts.
    I'm not bent. I just don't agree with your "opinion." You haven't stated any facts at all.

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  • haciendadad
    replied
    Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I don't really buy that, I don't think NE do a very good job in the draft or FA. What they have is the GOAT QB, the one year he was injured they missed the playoffs.

    Same with the Steelers, they have Big Ben. Apart from AB their receivers are pretty average and look better then they are because of the QB. Remember how PM used to make the Colt receivers into stars who went downhill once they left.

    Good coaches help but you really need a top QB, that is way more important then most things. We had PM for 4 years and went to 2 SB's, that wasn't down to coaching. Same with VJ this year, he has made some rookie mistakes but any coach with our QB situation would look bad.
    I would agree that you need a top quality QB, but IMO, that goes back to scouting.

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  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by gerontion View Post
    Elway and Shanahan are two of the biggest reasons why this franchise has been so successful since the mid 80s. If control freaks like them got us 3 Lombardi trophies I'm all for it. Also, last I checked Bill Belichick is in total control of the Patriots.
    Exactly but do you see difference between bill and our boys is that Bill does not scapegoat anyone. He identifies the problem and corrects it. He doesn’t keep failed draft picks in the team hoping to look like some sort of draft guru. He has put his team before himself and his ego.

    Don’t get bent Gero, just accept facts.

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  • gerontion
    replied
    Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Its so hard to judge what makes a coach 'great' when they have a top QB that instantly gives them a massive advantage over other teams.

    Its the same over here with out premier league football. The best coaches are always named as...... Guardiola, Conte, Klopp, Wenger, and Mourinho...... because their teams are near the top, but they are in charge of the biggest clubs who spend hundreds of millions every offseason and buy in the best players.

    BB had one non Brady year in NE and failed to win the division and didn't even make the playoffs. Plus he struggled in Cleveland when he had a bad team.

    Look at how many NE assistants look fantastic and become hot names, only to be some of the worst HC's in the league. They find out that life away from Brady is a completely different universe.
    To be fair, coaching in Cleveland is like having one hand tied behind your back. That being said, certainly Belichick has benefited from having Brady as his QB and Kraft as his owner. I think it's also safe to say Brady wouldn't have 5 rings if he had been drafted by a bad franchise.

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