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  • 4-3 defense

    What do you guys think the chances are that we switch to a 4-3 defense and how do you think our team would adjust? For some reason I feel like this change is coming. Not saying it’s what I want but it’s one of the things I can see VJ doing. It’s what he ran in Miami. I think we have the personnel for it. Wolfe was 4-3 DT in college Shane ray and Barrett I think were 4-3 DEs in college they drafted Walker who was undersized for a 3-4 DE Von Miller played his rookie year in a 4-3 I can’t remember is we switched the season after that or not.

  • #2
    Von Miller had 18.5 sacks in 2012 playing in Del Rio's 4-3 defense. I don't think a 4-man front will be an issue for Von Miller, especially with so many nickel and dime plays in today's NFL.

    The 4-man front would benefit Wolfe in my opinion. He recorded 6.0 sacks as a rookie in 2012 and most of his sacks came from formations that moved him inside to play DT againt centers and guards. As a 4-3 DE, he was mostly used as a space eater to let Von Miller go after the QB.

    Wolfe can be a 3-tech, with Peko as the other DT and NT for the over/under fronts.

    Shane Ray was a DE in college, so he's used to having his hand on the ground. Unless you want a heavier front to stop the run, Ray can serve as a RDE like Dumervil did in 2012. That 2012 defense was very stout against the run even with Dumervil as an every-down DE.

    Wesley Woodyard excelled as a WLB in 2012 and Corey Nelson can be that kind of player.

    I like the 4-3 defense more than the 3-4, but that's just a personal taste. I think having 4 defensive linemen on the field helps you win in the trenches and you can use variations with heavier and lighter defensive ends.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      But our 3-4 has been a 4-3 hybrid in many situations so isn't it semantics at this point?

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      • #4
        Formation doesn't matter....depends on the play caller and what he can coach/call well.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          The only thing the Broncos need to do to switch to a 4-3 is move the Sam linebacker back 3-5 yards, and rename the "will linebacker" as a weak side end. He already lines up where a weak side end would, and the other linemen all play in the same alignment and act the way they would in a 4-3.

          I would also move Miller to weak side End permanently, and only have him drop into coverage in the odd exotic look. Having the Sam back allows Denver to have 3 backers possibly in coverage in the base defense and allows them a little more variation in what they can do.

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          • #6
            No, No, No!!!

            It's no Coincidence this D became an All time Great Defense once they switched to a true 3-4 D. Von was born to be a 3-4 OLB. 4-3 D or 4-3 D hybrid waste his talents.

            You don't buy a Corvette then put snow tires on it.
            "Stand behind our troops or Feel free to stand in front of them!"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by munoz1987 View Post
              No, No, No!!!

              It's no Coincidence this D became an All time Great Defense once they switched to a true 3-4 D. Von was born to be a 3-4 OLB. 4-3 D or 4-3 D hybrid waste his talents.

              You don't buy a Corvette then put snow tires on it.
              We've been in a 4-3 hybrid since (if not before) Wade was here. See butler's post above for a better description.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by munoz1987 View Post
                No, No, No!!!

                It's no Coincidence this D became an All time Great Defense once they switched to a true 3-4 D. Von was born to be a 3-4 OLB. 4-3 D or 4-3 D hybrid waste his talents.

                You don't buy a Corvette then put snow tires on it.
                Denver doesn't play a true 3-4 defense, they didn't under Phillips, they don't now. They actually played more of a true 3-4 defense under Jack Del Rio because they had linemen 2 gapping. Now it's a 1 gap penetration style defense, every defender has a gap they're defending.

                Wade Phillips defense is only called a 3-4 defense, because there's usually 3 linemen in 3 point stances, but as far as alignments go and job description, it's a 4-3 defense with the Sam linebacker walked up to the line.

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                • #9
                  4-3 and 3-4 is actually the most overrated aspect of a defense now. Because defenses might only play 1 out of 3 downs in their base alignment after that you get into nickel and dime defenses where it's always 4 linemen and you reduce the linebackers for defensive backs.

                  The bigger aspects that matter for defenses are whether the linemen are 1 gap or 2 gap defenders. And whether you're a heavy man coverage, heavy zone coverage or an even split coverage shell behind it.

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                  • #10
                    Whatever defense runs Brandon Marshall and Todd Davis out of town I’m all for. Those guys are the softest, lamest, worst LBs in the league. Marshall especially, that dude isn’t worth half the money he’s making.

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                    • #11
                      I do not think it really matters as much as having a good minded coach who adjusts his system to the players talents.

                      When Wade came to town posters on these forums said Wolfe was ideally suited to play end in 3-4.

                      Do like Von coming off the edge with another talent like Ware. Guess that could be replicated with a 4-3 defense but the 3-4 made Von a Super Bowl MVP and highest paid defender in the NFL.

                      The coaching decisions is far more important then the advertised base defense imo

                      Another thing to note is all the comments made about the different players needed and the time it takes to shift from a 3-4 to a 4-3. I know they were made years ago by posters on these boards but I do remember them.

                      I dunno....we won SB50 with a historically epic defense....let just keep changing things year after year and see what happens....seems like a good idea
                      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                        I do not think it really matters as much as having a good minded coach who adjusts his system to the players talents.

                        When Wade came to town posters on these forums said Wolfe was ideally suited to play end in 3-4.

                        Do like Von coming off the edge with another talent like Ware. Guess that could be replicated with a 4-3 defense but the 3-4 made Von a Super Bowl MVP and highest paid defender in the NFL.

                        The coaching decisions is far more important then the advertised base defense imo

                        Another thing to note is all the comments made about the different players needed and the time it takes to shift from a 3-4 to a 4-3. I know they were made years ago by posters on these boards but I do remember them.

                        I dunno....we won SB50 with a historically epic defense....let just keep changing things year after year and see what happens....seems like a good idea
                        How many starters on defense from 2015 are still here?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                          How many starters on defense from 2015 are still here?
                          Of the guys who played the most snaps...

                          The top 5 all still here.

                          Harris - 97%
                          Talib - 89%
                          Marshall - 83%
                          Stewart - 77%
                          Miller - 76%

                          7 of the top 10 are still here. The top 10 includes every player who played 50% of the snaps or more.


                          After that the turnover starts to happen quickly as we lost 7 of 10 players who played between 10%-48% of the snaps. Two of those guys, Ray and Davis, are now full time starters.
                          Last edited by Hadez; 12-28-2017, 02:40 PM.
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                            Of the guys who played the most snaps...

                            The top 5 all still here.

                            Harris - 97%
                            Talib - 89%
                            Marshall - 83%
                            Stewart - 77%
                            Miller - 76%

                            7 of the top 10 are still here. The top 10 includes every player who played 50% of the snaps or more.


                            After that the turnover starts to happen quickly as we lost 7 of 10 players who played between 10%-48% of the snaps. Two of those guys, Ray and Davis, are now full time starters.
                            Were they the top? Malik and trevathan left and that was an immediate drop off we have yet to replace ware and ward are now gone and that’s another drop off we have yet to replace. Marshall has regressed pretty badly and you can make the same argument that Stewart and talib have looked slower. We don’t have the same players we don’t even have the same coaches.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                              Were they the top? Malik and trevathan left and that was an immediate drop off we have yet to replace ware and ward are now gone and that’s another drop off we have yet to replace. Marshall has regressed pretty badly and you can make the same argument that Stewart and talib have looked slower. We don’t have the same players we don’t even have the same coaches.

                              Top in terms of most snaps yea

                              One thing hard to compare is the different Defensive Coordinator. Stewart played much better under Wade than he is in a new position under Woods/VJ. Hard to even measure how that effected the CBs and their play as that is hard to measure unless each play call is known and the responsibilities of the play are known.
                              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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