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  • #46
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
    What exactly is he supposed to admit? What decisions did he exactly mess up? VJ was supposed to be a coach with an "eye for talent", I think giving him time to build something rather than just flush him down the toilet after just 1 disappointing season is commendable on Elway's behalf. I am getting awfully tired of the VJ hate and Elway hate lately. It was a rough year but maybe people should look to next year and the possibilities of good things to come instead of focusing on the past. It won't change.....
    A grown man admits his mistakes and learns from them. The bottom line is hiring a first time head coach coupled with a first time defensive coordinator and a first time special teams coach is a "recipre for disaster". Too proud to hire Shanny Jr? Lynch, Osweiler, etc...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by sendacash View Post
      Wow, Why are you asking the fans this question like we were somehow involved in the decision making process? It is high time that John Elway should come forward and admit his mistakes. Clearly he has missed on almost every decision since Peyton Manning has retired. I hate to say it, but maybe it is time for Elway to step aside?
      I don't think we can say definitively that hiring VJ was a mistake yet. When was the last time Denver had a coach come in and win the Super Bowl in his first year? I mean...you know what I mean.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by sendacash View Post
        A grown man admits his mistakes and learns from them. The bottom line is hiring a first time head coach coupled with a first time defensive coordinator and a first time special teams coach is a "recipre for disaster". Too proud to hire Shanny Jr? Lynch, Osweiler, etc...
        And a wise man knows when to and when not to make quick and rash decisions. A head coach needs 4 years to build a team or make it the type of team they were brought in for. How is a guy supposed to do that in just 1 year? As bad as this season appeared, VJ absolutely should get 1 more year to show and improve. Elway, and ill say it again for the 100th time, has only had 1 bad year since he's been here. Division titles, playoffs every year, 2 AFC title games and a Championship. Don't give me "he had Manning" crap. He still gets the credit for building those teams to what they were. Elway isn't and shouldn't be going anywhere.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
          And a wise man knows when to and when not to make quick and rash decisions. A head coach needs 4 years to build a team or make it the type of team they were brought in for. How is a guy supposed to do that in just 1 year? As bad as this season appeared, VJ absolutely should get 1 more year to show and improve. Elway, and ill say it again for the 100th time, has only had 1 bad year since he's been here. Division titles, playoffs every year, 2 AFC title games and a Championship. Don't give me "he had Manning" crap. He still gets the credit for building those teams to what they were. Elway isn't and shouldn't be going anywhere.
          Yes......and not for a long, long, long, LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG time. Because we'll be back in the playoffs next year.

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          • #50
            If the Raiders get Gruden and the Chargers keep Rivers and the Chiefs keep Smith, we are toast. We won't win this division until one of those leave- and we probably need 2 of them to leave to win.
            All the more reason to find a way to get the Chiefs to part with Smith and hope Carr gets hurt in the season opener.

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            • #51
              I really don't understand the fear others are displaying about Gruden joining Oakland.

              I really don't think he's much better of a coach than Joseph.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Hph5 View Post
                I don't think we can say definitively that hiring VJ was a mistake yet. When was the last time Denver had a coach come in and win the Super Bowl in his first year? I mean...you know what I mean.
                The more apt question is, when was the last time Denver had a coach come in and engineer an 8-game losing streak where the team showed up unprepared, uninspired, flat, sloppy, he made bad calls in-game and between games and failed to adjust --all in his first year.

                Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                  I really don't understand the fear others are displaying about Gruden joining Oakland.

                  I really don't think he's much better of a coach than Joseph.
                  One has proven his capabilities, the other has not. See:

                  https://forums.denverbroncos.com/sho...46#post5653146

                  Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                    I think this is a mistake but...I'm not absolutely "sure" of that. Maybe VJ learned from his numerous mistakes last year. Perhaps firing Olivo and signing or drafting a good QB will get us back into contention.
                    If he learned from his mistakes we wouldn't be 5-11. Learning from his mistakes wouldn't be putting McKenzie out on the field, over and over, and over, and over. Benching and starting players for the wrong reasons. Keeping Henderson and Walker off the field. There's a reason we were blown out in 4 games and lost 8 games by two possessions or more. Even with weaker teams with less talent like the Jets and pre-Garoppollo 9ers, they still played competitively and lost most games by a TD or less. Shoot, even the Browns played better than we did all season long on the offensive side.

                    When Gruden was commentating he practically called all the plays 1 for 1, now he's going to get to do with a week in advance with the Raiders.

                    And yeah, I agree, if we sign a QB that can fulfill Musgrave's offense then yeah, we have a chance. It goes back to how well VJ is actually preparing this team, which by all recent accounts seems like not much at all.
                    Last edited by TheAsianPA; 01-06-2018, 10:07 PM.
                    Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Chop_Block View Post
                      If the Raiders get Gruden and the Chargers keep Rivers and the Chiefs keep Smith, we are toast. We won't win this division until one of those leave- and we probably need 2 of them to leave to win.
                      All the more reason to find a way to get the Chiefs to part with Smith and hope Carr gets hurt in the season opener.
                      Alex Smith is a great QB...but I don't see the rest of the division really being our problem. We're still the last AFC West team to win a playoff game.

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                      • #56
                        Grudens over rated

                        The only thing he has going for him in Oakland is a QB.

                        If he last the full 10 years of the contract, ill give the raiders maybe 2 AFC West Division titles / Zero AFC Championships / Best Season Record 12-4

                        Will be interesting since the leagues landscape will change with Brady obviously not lasting another 10 years in NE

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Hph5 View Post
                          I don't think we can say definitively that hiring VJ was a mistake yet. When was the last time Denver had a coach come in and win the Super Bowl in his first year? I mean...you know what I mean.
                          There is a lot more on the side that it was a mistake.

                          In fact I have seen nothing to think VJ will work out as a head coach.

                          IMO he is still here because of relationships, money and/or continuity but not because of any of the results on the field.
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                            There is a lot more on the side that it was a mistake.

                            In fact I have seen nothing to think VJ will work out as a head coach.

                            IMO he is still here because of relationships, money and/or continuity but not because of any of the results on the field.
                            Cleveland Browns said the same thing about Belichick in 1995. Now I am not comparing Joseph to Belichick, but no coach can succeed in only one year. Cleveland gave Belichick 4 years and had one post season birth. Plus firing a HC after only one season sets a bad precedent. That would only make any new coach hesitant to come to Denver knowing that he to may be fired after just one season. Maybe Joseph is not the best coach, but continuity is valuable. I am all for giving Joseph another season and seeing what kind of improvements he can make. Now if next season is much the same, then revisit the idea of a coaching change. The players seem to like him and maybe a year together under there belt,will be a good thing. Kubiak spent 8 years as a HC with the Texans. Coaches need time to grow and develop. Joseph knows the expectations and seems to embrace them.

                            I realize some will rather get experienced coaches, but even that is a crap shoot. If the coaches are putting up the numbers to make them a good coaching candidate, they likely are not leaving the team there on. Hiring experienced coaches means hiring one that was fired, and while that sometimes works, it is just that, sometimes. GMs are forced to go with there gut most of the time, and while some fans feel in there gut he is not the right choice, the fact is none of us have ever even talked to him to do any king of evaluation. Elway has talked to him several times and feels he is still the best choice. You may think Elway is trying to stroke an ego, but I watched him play from 83- 98, and he is way to competitive to let an ego hold him back.
                            sigpic

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                            • #59
                              I don't know why people keep using Bill Belichick's history as an example for Vance Joseph.

                              Belichick inherited a 3-13 team in Cleveland and improved their record to 6-10 in his first season. 7-9 in 1992 and 1993, 11-5 in 1994, then 5-11 in 1995. Belichick coached the Browns for 5 seasons and was fired after they became the Baltimore Ravens.

                              It's very different from inheriting a 9-7 team, telling everyone the job was attractive because it was not broken, then burning it to the ground with a 5-11 record, bottom 5 in the league.

                              Belichick was not fired after one season and he did improve the record of his team as a first-year head coach. Not a valid example in my opinion.

                              What Joseph is doing looks more like the work of Josh McDaniels with the Broncos, but worse. McDaniels repeated Shanahan's 8-8 record in 2009 before crashing the team in 2010. Joseph provided an instant nosedive, turning a near-playoff team into a bottom-five team.
                              sigpic

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by broncolassiter View Post
                                Cleveland Browns said the same thing about Belichick in 1995. Now I am not comparing Joseph to Belichick, but no coach can succeed in only one year. Cleveland gave Belichick 4 years and had one post season birth. Plus firing a HC after only one season sets a bad precedent. That would only make any new coach hesitant to come to Denver knowing that he to may be fired after just one season. Maybe Joseph is not the best coach, but continuity is valuable. I am all for giving Joseph another season and seeing what kind of improvements he can make. Now if next season is much the same, then revisit the idea of a coaching change. The players seem to like him and maybe a year together under there belt,will be a good thing. Kubiak spent 8 years as a HC with the Texans. Coaches need time to grow and develop. Joseph knows the expectations and seems to embrace them.

                                I realize some will rather get experienced coaches, but even that is a crap shoot. If the coaches are putting up the numbers to make them a good coaching candidate, they likely are not leaving the team there on. Hiring experienced coaches means hiring one that was fired, and while that sometimes works, it is just that, sometimes. GMs are forced to go with there gut most of the time, and while some fans feel in there gut he is not the right choice, the fact is none of us have ever even talked to him to do any king of evaluation. Elway has talked to him several times and feels he is still the best choice. You may think Elway is trying to stroke an ego, but I watched him play from 83- 98, and he is way to competitive to let an ego hold him back.
                                Sean McVey, Anthony Lynn - both successful first year coaches.
                                Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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