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Kubiak Saved Joseph?

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  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    Marvin Lewis? Hue Jackson? Mike McCarthy? Jason Garrett?
    All possibilities too. Stuff tends to get leaked a lot at Dove Valley, it'll be interesting as time goes on what additional information we'll hear about the decision to keep VJ.

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    2015, Kubiak won a Super Bowl his first year.....
    For what it's worth, Red Miller went to a Super Bowl in his first year.

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Sunday morning of the final game against the Chiefs reports start circulating that VJ will be fired. By Sunday evening, the story is "Elway wants to sleep on it", then by Monday they tell us they're keeping VJ for next year.

    I wonder what really happened between Sunday morning and Monday afternoon, I don't fully believe that Elway just changed his mind, or Kubiak talked him into it, blah blah blah.....

    I'm thinking somebody he thought was getting fired didn't get fired. The timing makes too much sense, Sunday morning VJ is getting fired as it looks like the coach Elway was targeting is getting fired, by Sunday evening the coach he wants hasn't got fired yet, Elway wants to "sleep" on it. By Monday afternoon, when it's obvious the coach they want isn't getting fired, VJ is told he is coming back.

    I wonder, if true, which coach he was targeting, John Harbaugh, Todd Bowles, Bill O'Brien, Adam Gase (not liklely), Jay Gruden. Maybe he thought he could land Jon Gruden, but when the Raiders fired Del Rio that changed everything.

    If they were targeting someone else, the decision to keep VJ has less to do with them having any confidence in him, and more to do the guy they really wanted wasn't available.
    Marvin Lewis? Hue Jackson? Mike McCarthy? Jason Garrett?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rich_C
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
    That's true, who's to say that the next guy brought in isn't even worse than VJ. Right now everyone is in knee jerk reaction mode. What if next season Denver wins 9-11 games? Whats the reaction then?
    I owuld argue that it is not a knee jerk reaction. We went 9-7 ;last season. On top of that we, generally speaking, upgraded or defense this off-season. SO one has to point a large portion of the blame on VJ.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Originally posted by Hph5 View Post
    I don't think we can say definitively that hiring VJ was a mistake yet. When was the last time Denver had a coach come in and win the Super Bowl in his first year? I mean...you know what I mean.
    2015, Kubiak won a Super Bowl his first year.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Sunday morning of the final game against the Chiefs reports start circulating that VJ will be fired. By Sunday evening, the story is "Elway wants to sleep on it", then by Monday they tell us they're keeping VJ for next year.

    I wonder what really happened between Sunday morning and Monday afternoon, I don't fully believe that Elway just changed his mind, or Kubiak talked him into it, blah blah blah.....

    I'm thinking somebody he thought was getting fired didn't get fired. The timing makes too much sense, Sunday morning VJ is getting fired as it looks like the coach Elway was targeting is getting fired, by Sunday evening the coach he wants hasn't got fired yet, Elway wants to "sleep" on it. By Monday afternoon, when it's obvious the coach they want isn't getting fired, VJ is told he is coming back.

    I wonder, if true, which coach he was targeting, John Harbaugh, Todd Bowles, Bill O'Brien, Adam Gase (not liklely), Jay Gruden. Maybe he thought he could land Jon Gruden, but when the Raiders fired Del Rio that changed everything.

    If they were targeting someone else, the decision to keep VJ has less to do with them having any confidence in him, and more to do the guy they really wanted wasn't available.

    Leave a comment:


  • Freyaka
    replied
    Originally posted by Hph5 View Post
    I don't think we can say definitively that hiring VJ was a mistake yet. When was the last time Denver had a coach come in and win the Super Bowl in his first year? I mean...you know what I mean.
    No, we can safely say it. He is a terrible coach.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolee
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Sean McVey, Anthony Lynn - both successful first year coaches.
    Both have legitimate quarterbacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by broncolassiter View Post
    Cleveland Browns said the same thing about Belichick in 1995. Now I am not comparing Joseph to Belichick, but no coach can succeed in only one year. Cleveland gave Belichick 4 years and had one post season birth. Plus firing a HC after only one season sets a bad precedent. That would only make any new coach hesitant to come to Denver knowing that he to may be fired after just one season. Maybe Joseph is not the best coach, but continuity is valuable. I am all for giving Joseph another season and seeing what kind of improvements he can make. Now if next season is much the same, then revisit the idea of a coaching change. The players seem to like him and maybe a year together under there belt,will be a good thing. Kubiak spent 8 years as a HC with the Texans. Coaches need time to grow and develop. Joseph knows the expectations and seems to embrace them.

    I realize some will rather get experienced coaches, but even that is a crap shoot. If the coaches are putting up the numbers to make them a good coaching candidate, they likely are not leaving the team there on. Hiring experienced coaches means hiring one that was fired, and while that sometimes works, it is just that, sometimes. GMs are forced to go with there gut most of the time, and while some fans feel in there gut he is not the right choice, the fact is none of us have ever even talked to him to do any king of evaluation. Elway has talked to him several times and feels he is still the best choice. You may think Elway is trying to stroke an ego, but I watched him play from 83- 98, and he is way to competitive to let an ego hold him back.
    Sean McVey, Anthony Lynn - both successful first year coaches.

    Leave a comment:


  • -Rod-
    replied
    I don't know why people keep using Bill Belichick's history as an example for Vance Joseph.

    Belichick inherited a 3-13 team in Cleveland and improved their record to 6-10 in his first season. 7-9 in 1992 and 1993, 11-5 in 1994, then 5-11 in 1995. Belichick coached the Browns for 5 seasons and was fired after they became the Baltimore Ravens.

    It's very different from inheriting a 9-7 team, telling everyone the job was attractive because it was not broken, then burning it to the ground with a 5-11 record, bottom 5 in the league.

    Belichick was not fired after one season and he did improve the record of his team as a first-year head coach. Not a valid example in my opinion.

    What Joseph is doing looks more like the work of Josh McDaniels with the Broncos, but worse. McDaniels repeated Shanahan's 8-8 record in 2009 before crashing the team in 2010. Joseph provided an instant nosedive, turning a near-playoff team into a bottom-five team.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolassiter
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    There is a lot more on the side that it was a mistake.

    In fact I have seen nothing to think VJ will work out as a head coach.

    IMO he is still here because of relationships, money and/or continuity but not because of any of the results on the field.
    Cleveland Browns said the same thing about Belichick in 1995. Now I am not comparing Joseph to Belichick, but no coach can succeed in only one year. Cleveland gave Belichick 4 years and had one post season birth. Plus firing a HC after only one season sets a bad precedent. That would only make any new coach hesitant to come to Denver knowing that he to may be fired after just one season. Maybe Joseph is not the best coach, but continuity is valuable. I am all for giving Joseph another season and seeing what kind of improvements he can make. Now if next season is much the same, then revisit the idea of a coaching change. The players seem to like him and maybe a year together under there belt,will be a good thing. Kubiak spent 8 years as a HC with the Texans. Coaches need time to grow and develop. Joseph knows the expectations and seems to embrace them.

    I realize some will rather get experienced coaches, but even that is a crap shoot. If the coaches are putting up the numbers to make them a good coaching candidate, they likely are not leaving the team there on. Hiring experienced coaches means hiring one that was fired, and while that sometimes works, it is just that, sometimes. GMs are forced to go with there gut most of the time, and while some fans feel in there gut he is not the right choice, the fact is none of us have ever even talked to him to do any king of evaluation. Elway has talked to him several times and feels he is still the best choice. You may think Elway is trying to stroke an ego, but I watched him play from 83- 98, and he is way to competitive to let an ego hold him back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by Hph5 View Post
    I don't think we can say definitively that hiring VJ was a mistake yet. When was the last time Denver had a coach come in and win the Super Bowl in his first year? I mean...you know what I mean.
    There is a lot more on the side that it was a mistake.

    In fact I have seen nothing to think VJ will work out as a head coach.

    IMO he is still here because of relationships, money and/or continuity but not because of any of the results on the field.

    Leave a comment:


  • rst08tierney
    replied
    Grudens over rated

    The only thing he has going for him in Oakland is a QB.

    If he last the full 10 years of the contract, ill give the raiders maybe 2 AFC West Division titles / Zero AFC Championships / Best Season Record 12-4

    Will be interesting since the leagues landscape will change with Brady obviously not lasting another 10 years in NE

    Leave a comment:


  • Hph5
    replied
    Originally posted by Chop_Block View Post
    If the Raiders get Gruden and the Chargers keep Rivers and the Chiefs keep Smith, we are toast. We won't win this division until one of those leave- and we probably need 2 of them to leave to win.
    All the more reason to find a way to get the Chiefs to part with Smith and hope Carr gets hurt in the season opener.
    Alex Smith is a great QB...but I don't see the rest of the division really being our problem. We're still the last AFC West team to win a playoff game.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheAsianPA
    replied
    Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
    I think this is a mistake but...I'm not absolutely "sure" of that. Maybe VJ learned from his numerous mistakes last year. Perhaps firing Olivo and signing or drafting a good QB will get us back into contention.
    If he learned from his mistakes we wouldn't be 5-11. Learning from his mistakes wouldn't be putting McKenzie out on the field, over and over, and over, and over. Benching and starting players for the wrong reasons. Keeping Henderson and Walker off the field. There's a reason we were blown out in 4 games and lost 8 games by two possessions or more. Even with weaker teams with less talent like the Jets and pre-Garoppollo 9ers, they still played competitively and lost most games by a TD or less. Shoot, even the Browns played better than we did all season long on the offensive side.

    When Gruden was commentating he practically called all the plays 1 for 1, now he's going to get to do with a week in advance with the Raiders.

    And yeah, I agree, if we sign a QB that can fulfill Musgrave's offense then yeah, we have a chance. It goes back to how well VJ is actually preparing this team, which by all recent accounts seems like not much at all.
    Last edited by TheAsianPA; 01-06-2018, 10:07 PM.

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