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  • hawaiiiancrush
    replied
    What happens if Kelly comes out in TC this year looking like a legit QB, and we do end up getting KK for 30 mill??
    I really think Kelly will surprise many, if I’m Elway we trade back in the first and get the Oline fixed, I really like Tyrod Taylor, Kelly, and see if Lynch can final turn the corner. Trade Trevor for whatever we can get for him.
    KK is just too expensive, and he have some many holes to fill that I don’t think Cousins can over come, paying 30 mill a year will just kill us for fixing holes on the draft and FA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chop_Block
    replied
    Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
    I don't disagree with you about Eli, but completely disagree with the bolded.

    Whether or not you want to presume that Cousins was improving until injuries and personnel decision hurt him this year, or 2015 is more accurately who he is, he's still a borderline top ten quarterback with no injury concerns. Rodgers and Luck are huge injury risks. Stafford, Roethlisberger, and Wilson are dinged often and deal with nagging injuries that have negatively effected them. Even if you want to make an argument that Mariota, Flacco, Carr, and Newton are comparable or better, look at the injury concerns. This is a reliable top ten production asset.

    And if you want to argue Alex Smith, consider that if you're going to penalize Cousins for his efficiency this season, you must take into account Smith's situation in KC. You must evaluate what Smith has been over the course of his 151 games as a starter, while evaluating Cousins over the course of his 55 games as a starter.

    That's what you're essentially paying for.

    It goes w/o saying that the SB argument doesn't add up, especially in a year where Case Keenum could wind up playing in it.
    Many in Oakland criticized Al Davis for trading for the "bust" in New England named Jim Plunkett. And, he was 2-0 in the SB.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kansas Bob
    replied
    Originally posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
    I disagree. If we get a good quarterback then we will definitely do better. Good quarterbacks cover up holes. Not every hole. But, there were more than a couple of losses that I’d put the majority of the blame on having a bad qb.
    It is your right to disagree BUT with Kubiak and his staff Siemian looked pretty decent for a 2nd year QB in 2016. Under Joseph, McCoy and the rest of their staff Siemian started out looking pretty good and got worse the longer the coaches worked with him. Coaches have much more to do with team success than many people realize. That is my opinion, of course.
    I am hoping that by getting rid of most of Joseph's hand picked staff, this year will be defferent but I hate the to think of Joseph
    ruining any more QB's.

    Leave a comment:


  • ksubroncosfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Kansas Bob View Post
    I don't blame Cousin for refusing a long term contract for $20 mil when he can get a one year for much more and now Cleveland will give him a long term deal for much more!
    We won't do much better no matter who our QB is until we improve our OL & DL lines and our COACHES!
    I disagree. If we get a good quarterback then we will definitely do better. Good quarterbacks cover up holes. Not every hole. But, there were more than a couple of losses that I’d put the majority of the blame on having a bad qb.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kansas Bob
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
    They do want him, they offered him a long term deal last year worth a little over 20 a year( if I remember right ) He is the one with beef on upper management. Something went wrong with Cousins and the men up top, not sure what it was but he wants out of Washington.
    I don't blame Cousin for refusing a long term contract for $20 mil when he can get a one year for much more and now Cleveland will give him a long term deal for much more!
    We won't do much better no matter who our QB is until we improve our OL & DL lines and our COACHES!
    Last edited by Kansas Bob; 01-16-2018, 01:30 PM. Reason: Add to my comments

    Leave a comment:


  • flosstein
    replied
    Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
    Wonder what DT's stats would have been with ATLs offense and MVP Ryan passing him the ball.Conversely, would Jones have had similar "struggles" in the Broncos offense with the ball being delivered by their revolving door of sub par QBs trotted out there this season.

    Not sure why there is such a resistance to stabilizing the QB position. Cousins brings in a arguably a top 10 vet QB for the next 5+ years. Even if it costs market value. Perhaps this is one of those times that Elway can work some magic and get a "deal" and trim a couple million per year.

    I get that it is tough to accept market value for a QB when the Broncos have been shopping in the bargain bin in recent years. But the reality is you get what you pay for.

    If they decide to go with a rookie then accept the likely downside of the learning on the job. If they decide to go cheap with another journeyman then expect marginal results, like we have seen.

    Personally I am ready to see some consistent quality QB play. Even if it costs them financially and a couple players. Prefer they go all-in to sign Cousins at a reasonable market value. Whatever that is? At least that is a starting point to build from.. No perfect solutions. Just tough choices to get out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

    Thomas
    2010 23 DEN wr 88 10 2 39 22 283 12.9 2 31 2.2 28.3 56.4%
    2011 24 DEN wr 88 11 5 70 32 551 17.2 4 47 2.9 50.1 45.7%
    2012* 25 DEN WR 88 16 16 143 94 1434 15.3 10 71 5.9 89.6 65.7%
    2013* 26 DEN WR 88 16 16 142 92 1430 15.5 14 78 5.8 89.4 64.8%
    2014* 27 DEN WR 88 16 16 184 111 1619 14.6 11 86 6.9 101.2 60.3%
    2015* 28 DEN WR 88 16 16 177 105 1304 12.4 6 72 6.6 81.5 59.3%

    2016* 29 DEN WR 88 16 16 144 90 1083 12.0 5 55 5.6 67.7 62.5%
    2017 30 DEN WR 35 16 16 140 83 949 11.4 5 40 5.2 59.3 59.3%
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...T/ThomDe03.htm


    Jones
    2011 22 ATL WR 11 13 13 95 54 959 17.8 8 80 4.2 73.8 56.8%
    2012* 23 ATL WR 11 16 15 128 79 1198 15.2 10 80 4.9 74.9 61.7%
    2013 24 ATL wr 11 5 5 59 41 580 14.1 2 81 8.2 116.0 69.5%
    2014* 25 ATL WR 11 15 15 163 104 1593 15.3 6 79 6.9 106.2 63.8%
    2015*+ 26 ATL WR 11 16 16 203 136 1871 13.8 8 70 8.5 116.9 67.0%
    2016*+ 27 ATL WR 11 14 14 129 83 1409 17.0 6 75 5.9 100.6 64.3%
    2017* 28 ATL WR 11 16 16 148 88 1444 16.4 3 53 5.5 90.3 59.5%
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JoneJu02.htm

    If you look at DT's years with PM and without, you clearly see the answer to your first question is yes. DT with a top tier QB is a proven commodity. And the answer to your second question is yes, but not without it's looking at JJ's actual game logs and not just his total yardage. As Ryan was up and down, so went JJ. It's interesting to compare the two though as their numbers aren't really that far off, especially if you average the PM-DT years outside of the garbage QB years. You can even see his ypc fall drastically, in 2015 when PM fell apart. And as the QBplay got worse, so did his production. Based on this, I see no reason to not believe that with a good QB, he can't return to form. And based on age and wear and tear on his body from being used as a "small" WR, I can fully see him back in the 12-1300 YPS / 8-10 TD/S range. Especially if Butt (Go Blue!) takes his dynamic game and great hands to the next level.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos SB2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    I like how the phrase "fix the o-line before getting a QB" is thrown out there. It's not an easy fix, fixing the o-line. Look at Dallas, their current o-line started in 2011 with drafting Tyron Smith, it took 6 years and 3 first round picks to get it where it is today. Even with their good o-line, they still didn't even make the playoffs.

    Are we willing to wait 6-7 years before we look at QB, because we need to "fix" the o-line?
    It didn't take 6, it was 4. Still, I understand your point. We have already made some moves though with Bolles and Leary. Another couple this offseason and they should have the building blocks to solidify the line, if they make good choices.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taos_Broncomaniac
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great;5669002[B
    ]I like how the phrase "fix the o-line before getting a QB" is thrown out there.[/B] It's not an easy fix, fixing the o-line. Look at Dallas, their current o-line started in 2011 with drafting Tyron Smith, it took 6 years and 3 first round picks to get it where it is today. Even with their good o-line, they still didn't even make the playoffs.

    Are we willing to wait 6-7 years before we look at QB, because we need to "fix" the o-line?
    I could say the same thing about "getting a QB", the point I apparently failed to make is that we shouldn't IMO break the bank on an elite signal caller whose going to get smashed. Obviously we should upgrade the position immediately if not sooner.

    But we desperately need to fix the O-line!

    Edit: Dallas needs a new coach!
    Last edited by Taos_Broncomaniac; 01-16-2018, 09:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brakshow
    replied
    Originally posted by nickmeyer View Post
    That is a fair argument; however 26-30-1 is Cousins record and is what 30 years old? so we would be hoping he could give us 8 solid years. I just dont see it. Eli is the better option a short term commitment with little to no risk involved.
    Ugh. No. No more 2-3 year band-aids/stop-gaps. Eli is not the once/twice in a lifetime player that his Brother was, and continually trying to bring in a vet to try to repeat what we did with Peyton is a fools errand.

    We need a franchise QB that can shore up that position for a long time. Of the last 30 SB wins, only two or 3 came without a prototypical franchise QB.

    While Cousins may or may not be the answer to that (we can debate on that issue), trying to find vets at the end of their careers to fill in for a few years while we sacrifice a few more trying to find the next vet is just not a good business decision.

    We got lucky that it worked with Peyton. Now we gotta look towards building a real team with some staying power.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Originally posted by dukes88 View Post
    How many times did Thomas drop a pass that cost us this year - a top WR does not have that many passes go off his hands (or not even get his hands on it). He needs to take a pay cut - I agree we need him, as we have no real WR depth on the team.
    I remember Thomas and Decker dropping a ton of passes in 2012 and 2013, difference is we had a QB who could make up for their drops

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    Originally posted by Taos_Broncomaniac View Post
    You've got them in the wrong order...

    This might be closer.

    1. Some "Fans"

    2. O-line!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    3. QB

    Throw everything we've got an offensive wall first. Hope Butt pans out, if we find a replacement for Welker (yes, Welker) and bring in some mid to late round BPA hits vs misses we should be on the right path.

    I still think Sloter would have been starting by the end of the season. Meanwhile, no point in bringing in elite talent until the O-line is solid. I will say Eli's knowledge (like his brother) would tame some of those defenses a bit with hurry up and quick reads IMO.
    I like how the phrase "fix the o-line before getting a QB" is thrown out there. It's not an easy fix, fixing the o-line. Look at Dallas, their current o-line started in 2011 with drafting Tyron Smith, it took 6 years and 3 first round picks to get it where it is today. Even with their good o-line, they still didn't even make the playoffs.

    Are we willing to wait 6-7 years before we look at QB, because we need to "fix" the o-line?

    Leave a comment:


  • FR Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by dukes88 View Post
    Those are just the obvious recorded drops, many other passes he didn't make it to - wish he had the stats that Jones had this season though even with the drops.
    Wonder what DT's stats would have been with ATLs offense and MVP Ryan passing him the ball. Conversely, would Jones have had similar "struggles" in the Broncos offense with the ball being delivered by their revolving door of sub par QBs trotted out there this season.

    Not sure why there is such a resistance to stabilizing the QB position. Cousins brings in a arguably a top 10 vet QB for the next 5+ years. Even if it costs market value. Perhaps this is one of those times that Elway can work some magic and get a "deal" and trim a couple million per year.

    I get that it is tough to accept market value for a QB when the Broncos have been shopping in the bargain bin in recent years. But the reality is you get what you pay for.

    If they decide to go with a rookie then accept the likely downside of the learning on the job. If they decide to go cheap with another journeyman then expect marginal results, like we have seen.

    Personally I am ready to see some consistent quality QB play. Even if it costs them financially and a couple players. Prefer they go all-in to sign Cousins at a reasonable market value. Whatever that is? At least that is a starting point to build from.. No perfect solutions. Just tough choices to get out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

    Leave a comment:


  • ksubroncosfan
    replied
    Originally posted by dukes88 View Post
    Those are just the obvious recorded drops, many other passes he didn't make it to - wish he had the stats that Jones had this season though even with the drops.
    If they’re just recorded drops, do you think only DT had the unrecorded ones and Julio didn’t? Like there is some conspiracy by the people who record drops to make DT look better? I also don’t think anyone (most at least) here thinks DT is better than Julio. But, it still shows that when you’re targeted more, you’re going to have some drops and that even some of the best players in the league aren’t perfect.

    However, Julio was playing with a very good quarterback. So of course a stud like him is going to put up better numbers than a slightly worse version of himself in a receiver like DT with qbs that he had this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • dukes88
    replied
    Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
    Those are just the obvious recorded drops, many other passes he didn't make it to - wish he had the stats that Jones had this season though even with the drops.

    Leave a comment:


  • shawinkerpoppin
    replied
    Originally posted by dukes88 View Post
    How many times did Thomas drop a pass that cost us this year - a top WR does not have that many passes go off his hands (or not even get his hands on it). He needs to take a pay cut - I agree we need him, as we have no real WR depth on the team.
    Tied with Julio Jones

    https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?...=1&sortOrder=0

    Leave a comment:

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