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  • #31
    Hamilton will likely have a bigger impact than Sutton this year. Hamilton is really good in the slot and his route running is great. Sutton can do it all as well, but I don't see the snaps favoring Sutton right off the bat. Next year it's a totally different scenario. I don't see Sutton taking much away from Sanders and DT unless Sanders starts working out of the slot again/more.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
      Are we turning Courtland Sutton into a TE?
      Haha! My bad. I got my positions mixed up. I meant second non-slot receiver in a three receiver package. Maybe it's W. I don't remember now.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
        Haha! My bad. I got my positions mixed up. I meant second non-slot receiver in a three receiver package. Maybe it's W. I don't remember now.
        Each playbook can be different. In 21 personnel X is Split End, Y is Tight End and Z/40 is Flanker/off WR. When one of the Backs comes out (Fullback) and an extra Receiver is in on 11 personnel, X and Y are still on LOS, Z is still off and the other receiver is whatever the playbook calls that guy. Could be A or W as you say. If a TE is off, he is usually called H and can motion. There are formations with no TE in which case Y is just another Split End. 11 personnel formations were a favorite of Peyton Manning.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • #34
          I think I am just far more pessimistic than most. There is a reason why these WR's slipped to the 2nd round and further. there is also a reason why some of these other guys were available even later than the 3rd. I expect we will see 1-2 rookies start right off the bat and with any luck do well. I would not be shocked if we didn't see at least 1-2 UDFA's push for spots on the 53-Man roster as well. I expect to see Jewell make the field quite a bit but as with all Rookies he will likely show some technique issues and probably a MAJOR need to get stronger.

          I for one am not sure we even see D.Williams make the 53-Man roster. I think the skill-sets of him and some of our other backs are just too similar. I'd be far more inclined to think we'd see Phillip Lindsay end up in his spot instead as he would represent a different type of back and would either start as a PR/KR guy or at the very least be able to backup that role for us.

          IMO- In no particular order I see the following in the RB room

          D.Booker
          D.Henderson
          R.Freeman
          P.Lindsay

          I am not sure we even keep Janovitch as he was so rarely used last season that he may well be a Roster cut casualty. We may opt to use more two back sets with Freeman (240lbs) or use a TE to play the FB role if needed from time to time.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
            I think I am just far more pessimistic than most. There is a reason why these WR's slipped to the 2nd round and further. there is also a reason why some of these other guys were available even later than the 3rd. I expect we will see 1-2 rookies start right off the bat and with any luck do well. I would not be shocked if we didn't see at least 1-2 UDFA's push for spots on the 53-Man roster as well. I expect to see Jewell make the field quite a bit but as with all Rookies he will likely show some technique issues and probably a MAJOR need to get stronger.

            I for one am not sure we even see D.Williams make the 53-Man roster. I think the skill-sets of him and some of our other backs are just too similar. I'd be far more inclined to think we'd see Phillip Lindsay end up in his spot instead as he would represent a different type of back and would either start as a PR/KR guy or at the very least be able to backup that role for us.

            IMO- In no particular order I see the following in the RB room

            D.Booker
            D.Henderson
            R.Freeman
            P.Lindsay

            I am not sure we even keep Janovitch as he was so rarely used last season that he may well be a Roster cut casualty. We may opt to use more two back sets with Freeman (240lbs) or use a TE to play the FB role if needed from time to time.
            Not many RBs run between the tackles anymore, so Jewell’s speed will be an issue.

            As a former Buff myself, having Phil Lindsey on the team would be fantastic. He just brings toughness and energy and character to the locker room. If it’s as RB or kick returns, I don’t care, I will root for him.

            Good point on Freeman serving as FB in some packages. Janovich probably not making final 53.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Rastic View Post
              He probably meant Sutton would be the third receiver when the offense plays personnel packages with three receivers.
              I think that is likely.

              I also think he will slide into Sander's spot on the outside, and Emmanuel moves back to the slot on those plays.
              sigpic

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              • #37
                Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                Not many RBs run between the tackles anymore, so Jewell’s speed will be an issue.

                As a former Buff myself, having Phil Lindsey on the team would be fantastic. He just brings toughness and energy and character to the locker room. If it’s as RB or kick returns, I don’t care, I will root for him.

                Good point on Freeman serving as FB in some packages. Janovich probably not making final 53.
                I know that many like, read as prefer, runs to go to the outside more. The main reason is those types of runs tend to have big yardage opportunities. The fa t still remains though that in the NFL to be successful you NEED to run it up the middle or the field. Whether that be between the OG and OC or between the OG and OT.

                Since this thread is about the production of rookies. When I saw our newest TE his general style reminded me a bit of Joel Dreessen. He seemed to block well, catch well and play with a bit of grit. Looking at the main TEs the big question mark for me is Jeff H vs A. Traylor. If we are being honest I liked Traylor better last season and I think if he is used more and better he could be a great fit for us. So for me I wouldn't be shocked if Jeff H is cut or traded for a 6th or 7th. Again JMO.

                I also see us liking and wanting to develop younger Olineman. We need it. As a result I'd see 3 TEs vs 4 on the 53 and perhaps one more Olineman than we are used to. I also see one or two of our younger lineman perhaps being our future at OC. I am not sure we give Paradis the contract he would want or deserve.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                  Not many RBs run between the tackles anymore, so Jewell’s speed will be an issue.

                  As a former Buff myself, having Phil Lindsey on the team would be fantastic. He just brings toughness and energy and character to the locker room. If it’s as RB or kick returns, I don’t care, I will root for him.

                  Good point on Freeman serving as FB in some packages. Janovich probably not making final 53.
                  Can you explain this more please?
                  sigpic

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                    I think I am just far more pessimistic than most. There is a reason why these WR's slipped to the 2nd round and further. there is also a reason why some of these other guys were available even later than the 3rd. I expect we will see 1-2 rookies start right off the bat and with any luck do well. I would not be shocked if we didn't see at least 1-2 UDFA's push for spots on the 53-Man roster as well. I expect to see Jewell make the field quite a bit but as with all Rookies he will likely show some technique issues and probably a MAJOR need to get stronger.

                    I for one am not sure we even see D.Williams make the 53-Man roster. I think the skill-sets of him and some of our other backs are just too similar. I'd be far more inclined to think we'd see Phillip Lindsay end up in his spot instead as he would represent a different type of back and would either start as a PR/KR guy or at the very least be able to backup that role for us.

                    IMO- In no particular order I see the following in the RB room

                    D.Booker
                    D.Henderson
                    R.Freeman
                    P.Lindsay

                    I am not sure we even keep Janovitch as he was so rarely used last season that he may well be a Roster cut casualty. We may opt to use more two back sets with Freeman (240lbs) or use a TE to play the FB role if needed from time to time.
                    jano played a good chunk of special teams

                    o think we end up carrying 5 rbing backs next season and i don't see jano going any where

                    i also feel lindsays spot is reliant on him winning the PR or KR spot. other wise he will more then likely be PS.

                    both our drafted RB has got alot of touchdowns. i think we wanted to emphisize a hammer down by the goal line.
                    Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 05-01-2018, 08:22 PM.
                    sigpic
                    oakland raders gm
                    latavis murray trade bait

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                      Not many RBs run between the tackles anymore, so Jewell’s speed will be an issue. .
                      Not sure what you’re talking about with RBs not running between the tackles...

                      However, are you seriously worried about his speed?

                      Kareem Hunt
                      LeVeon Bell
                      Mark Ingram
                      Jordan Howard
                      CJ Anderson
                      Alex Collins
                      Frank Gore
                      Carlos Hyde
                      Alvin Kamara
                      Devontae Freeman
                      Jay Ajayi

                      This is just a list of some of the players that Freeman has a faster 40 than.

                      Needless to say, his speed is not an issue. You might need to adjust your standards for speed for good running backs.

                      EDIT: Thought you were talking about Freeman's speed. Jumped the gun on reading "RB". My bad.
                      Last edited by ksubroncosfan; 05-02-2018, 06:35 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
                        Not sure what you’re talking about with RBs not running between the tackles...

                        However, are you seriously worried about his speed?

                        Kareem Hunt
                        LeVeon Bell
                        Mark Ingram
                        Jordan Howard
                        CJ Anderson
                        Alex Collins
                        Frank Gore
                        Carlos Hyde
                        Alvin Kamara
                        Devontae Freeman
                        Jay Ajayi

                        This is just a list of some of the players that Freeman has a faster 40 than.

                        Needless to say, his speed is not an issue. You might need to adjust your standards for speed for good running backs.
                        I think he is talking about Jewell's really poor 40. Not Freeman.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                          Not many RBs run between the tackles anymore, so Jewell’s speed will be an issue.

                          As a former Buff myself, having Phil Lindsey on the team would be fantastic. He just brings toughness and energy and character to the locker room. If it’s as RB or kick returns, I don’t care, I will root for him.

                          Good point on Freeman serving as FB in some packages. Janovich probably not making final 53.
                          Every team runs a variation of inside zone, a lot of teams run the power play and then if the team uses a fullback they run lead as well. Stretch and toss are good to get outside, but you have to be able to run from tackle to tackle if you're going to be a successful team.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
                            I think he is talking about Jewell's really poor 40. Not Freeman.
                            Right you are. I saw RB and jumped the gun. Still think RBs do run between the tackles plenty though. I stand by that confusion.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                              Every team runs a variation of inside zone, a lot of teams run the power play and then if the team uses a fullback they run lead as well. Stretch and toss are good to get outside, but you have to be able to run from tackle to tackle if you're going to be a successful team.
                              Don't forget Counter which is set up by running at the T/TE hole.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
                                Right you are. I saw RB and jumped the gun. Still think RBs do run between the tackles plenty though. I stand by that confusion.
                                They run between the tackles plenty in the NFL especially if you don't have a solid tackling machine behind your DT's. Jewell will not be covering RB's out of the backfield well but hitting them in the hole he certainly did that in college. I hope that translates to the NFL because we need LB's that tackle RB's in the hole and not chasing guys down 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.

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