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  • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    No. It isn't. They played the Raiders and the Seahawks...before today. 2 bad teams. How did they do tonight against a halfway decent team? Besdies Sanders big end around, pretty much nothing.
    Freeman and Lindsay had 73 yards on 17 carries. That's not bad. Lindsay was also kicked out of the game before he could really get going. So, yeah, I stand behind what I said.

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    • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
      The lions made a concerted effort to improve their Oline. Drafted Glasgow in 2016. Signed Land and Wagner in 2017. Now they added Ragnow in the 1st this year. Nelson is just 1 piece of the puzzle and you have to start somewhere. I said all along during the predraft process that we need at least 1 Olineman that can dominate in which to build around. The Broncos currently don't one. They took Bolles over Ramczyk. They signed Watson instead of Wagner or Whitworth. They drafted Sambrailo. The effort to buiild the Oline has been pretty weak. The Colts have been trying to build theri Oline just like the Broncos...with old guys and/or low draft picks. They signed an OC last year and now this year they signed Nelson. They are moving in the right direction....unlike the Broncos.
      Elway drafted Bolles, Paradis, and McGovern, signed Leary and traded for Veldheer.
      So just like the Lions 3 draft picks and two players brought in ( Via trade/ free agency).
      Our oline has been a better run line than Detroit’s this season.
      Last edited by 58Miller; 09-23-2018, 08:49 PM.
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      • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
        Elway drafted Bolles, Paradis, and McGovern, signed Leary and traded for Veldheer.
        So just like the Lions 3 draft picks and two players brought in ( Via trade/ free agency).
        really...just like the Lions?

        Lions...Three 1st rounders in the draft and 2 of the top FA Olinemen.
        Broncos: 1 st rounder ( and not even the best one on the board), a 6th rounder (Paradis) and a 5th rounder (McGovern). FA..1 decent one in Leary and a guy who looked washed up a year or two ago.


        Yep...just like the Lions.....
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        • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
          really...just like the Lions?

          Lions...Three 1st rounders in the draft and 2 of the top FA Olinemen.
          Broncos: 1 st rounder ( and not even the best one on the board), a 6th rounder (Paradis) and a 5th rounder (McGovern). FA..1 decent one in Leary and a guy who looked washed up a year or two ago.


          Yep...just like the Lions.....
          Your right we’re not like the Lions
          Denver has ran the ball better than Detroit this year, and were 2–1 compared to 1-2.

          Oh and Glasgow was a 3rd rd pick.
          Last edited by 58Miller; 09-23-2018, 08:53 PM.
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          • Originally posted by gerontion View Post
            Freeman and Lindsay had 73 yards on 17 carries. That's not bad. Lindsay was also kicked out of the game before he could really get going. So, yeah, I stand behind what I said.
            we will have to agree to disagree on that.
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            • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
              Glasgow was a 3rd rd pick.
              Denver has ran the ball better than Detroit this year, and were 2–1 compared to 1-2.
              you are right, my mistake. I would bet that the Lions end up running better and having a better record than us by the end of the season. We played the seahawks and Raiders...two very bad run defenses so far. Are you happy with our Oline? Do you think they are very good? Building a solid Oline is a multiyear and multiplayer process. We will never be a contender again until that is improved and we haven't even started yet unless you think Bolles is the answer at LT.
              Last edited by broncos SB2010; 09-23-2018, 09:00 PM.
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              • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                Sounds like you should apply for a front office job, because you can see the future. As stated when you have already invested that much in a position (recently) it makes sense to spend in other areas. Could it be possible, that the Broncos just weren't that high on any of the QBs that were available at 5? They certainly spent a lot of time scouting and researching all of the QBs, maybe they were high on Mayfield and/or Darnold and once both were gone they decided that none of the other QBs were worth the pick?

                Considering a team that needs a QB just as bad (Giants) didn't spend their first round pick on one either, it doesn't seem that far fetched.
                No, I hear ya. Hindsight is 20/20. But that's not what I'm saying, and I'll be the first to admit that the jury is still out on Allen and Rosen. What I'm saying is that there was a higher probability of drafting a franchise QB in the top 5 than there is a probability of getting them anywhere else. When you have that opportunity, I think you gotta go for it given the importance to the game of the position. I agree at the point they have that much invested, it's difficult, but you have to know by then that Lynch is not going to cut it (or you should have based on his practice and game tape), Kelly is a very low investment and is your inactive QB on game day, and you're probably going to keep Keenum until the young draft stud develops. It's not that atypical other than Lynch which was just a bad decision that you saw them move on from eventually in the same year of the draft in question.

                And I'll argue that if the Broncos weren't that high on one of the QB's available then they made a scouting mistake. Allen and Rosen project well in this league, and both were taken in the top 10 appropriately. Statistically speaking, they have much more of a chance to be a franchise QB than anyone on the Broncos roster. You could say that the Broncos were wary of the completion % of Allen, or the dink and dunk game of Rosen, or the scheme of Jackson. Maybe true. But these compare favorably to the posse of Lynch, Kelly and Keenum.
                To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

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                • Wow...people are crowning Allen and Rosen as Franchise QBs after 2 games for Allen and 7 throws for Rosen?

                  And Chubb is a bust with 1.5 sacks in his first 3 games?

                  Let's see how Allen does when DCs have some tape on him. I'm guessing not well. Can Rosen stay healthy? We'll see.

                  I'd still take Chubb based on what I've seen so far.

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                  • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                    you are right, my mistake. I would bet that the Lions end up running better and having a better record than us by the end of the season. We played the seahawks and Raiders...two very bad run defenses so far. Are you happy with our Oline? Do you think they are very good? Building a solid Oline is a multiyear and multiplayer process. We will never be a contender again until that is improved and we haven't even started yet unless you think Bolles is the answer at LT.
                    Detroit is 1 & 2 and of the teams they've played the Jets and 49ers only wins came against Detroit. If you want to argue a team try to find a better example than Detroit ( Last season allowed 47 sacks and were dead last in running the football) If you wan to bring up an Lineman we should have drafted try to find one that is making his team better, Colts don't look very good.
                    We will have to agree to disagree.
                    As far as our LT Bolles had a great game week 1 vs Frank Clark (has 3 sacks this year) has struggled with penalties in the last two games. He is our LT this year, all I can do is hope he figures it out (physically has the tools.
                    Last edited by 58Miller; 09-23-2018, 09:25 PM.
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                    • Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
                      Wow...people are crowning Allen and Rosen as Franchise QBs after 2 games for Allen and 7 throws for Rosen?

                      And Chubb is a bust with 1.5 sacks in his first 3 games?

                      Let's see how Allen does when DCs have some tape on him. I'm guessing not well. Can Rosen stay healthy? We'll see.

                      I'd still take Chubb based on what I've seen so far.
                      Agreed. Honestly, I'm not sold on any of the rookie QBs, simply because it's only three games. Is Darnold really the franchise guy in NY? Watson in Houston hasn't matched his incredible run of last year. Who says superman Mahomes doesn't have the same arc. Allen has one game. Rosen a few plays. Jimmy G has looked okay this year but not top five salary good. Mayfield has less than a game. Jackson is some kind of hybrid/decoy in Baltimore. Of all those guys, I like Baker the most. I hope they all turn out great but it's way too early.

                      I think Chubb has looked very good so far and I'm happy with that choice. That said, I wish Denver could solve their QB spot. Just average play would be great. Hopefully, Case can salvage his performance this year. Maybe Kelly can make a big jump in the off season.

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                      • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                        ...or a lineman. Look at the Lions tonight running behind their line.
                        Chubb opened with an excellent sack, had a pressure that forced a poor throw and had another tackle. On the pressure he almost got home with another sack. The skills he demonstrated on the sack reinforce why the Broncos took him at #5.

                        I understand the debate about whether or not Chubb has lived up to the hype. Three games isn’t enough to make a judgement. Shifting the discussion to run production by the Lions is misplaced at best. Before yesterday’s game the Broncos were second in rushing (IIRC). Yesterday Lindsay averaged 5.0 yards/carry before being ejected and Freeman averaged 4.1.

                        The argument the Broncos haven’t made a concerted effort to improve the line is inaccurate. It’s fair to debate the choices, e.g. Bolles vs. Ramczyk but make no mistake the Broncos have made the effort. They signed Leary and Veldheer and hired new coaches. McGovern and Bolles are still developing. Despite the holding penalties yesterday, Bolles has made strides. Watson didn’t pan out and that was a questionable acquisition based on injury history.

                        The issue that ails the Broncos isn’t the offensive line or Chubb. It’s inconsistent play/turnovers by Keenum and poor play by the secondary. In four of five INTs by Keenum in three games he had ample protection. On the INT yesterday there was pressure up the middle and Keenum forced the throw off his back foot.

                        I get your preference for picking Nelson. Nelson was one of my preferred picks. However it’s early to make judgments about Chubb. He showed his potential yesterday and hopefully we see more going forward. I’ve been pleased with his play thus far.
                        Last edited by Fantaztic7; 09-24-2018, 05:43 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                          As far as our LT Bolles had a great game week 1 vs Frank Clark (has 3 sacks this year) has struggled with penalties in the last two games. He is our LT this year, all I can do is hope he figures it out (physically has the tools.
                          Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                          The argument the Broncos haven’t made a concerted effort to improve the line is inaccurate. It’s fair to debate the choices, e.g. Bolles vs. Ramczyk but make no mistake the Broncos have made the effort to improve the line. They signed Leary and Veldheer and hired new coaches. McGovern and Bolles are still developing. Despite the holding penalties yesterday, Bolles has made strides. Watson didn’t pan out and that was a questionable acquisition based on injury history.
                          I can't believe you guys are trying to defend Bolles and the Oline moves the FO has made. Bolles does not have the tools/skills to be successful. He is a marginal starter and always will be. It's not like he is a 22 year old player. He is already 26 and has no idea what he is doing out there. He gets beat both mentally and physically.

                          Fan...you say the Watson pick was questionable based on his history but you defend the Veldheer signing?

                          The FO has whiffed time after time on the Oline...Franklin, Bolles, Watson, Donaldson, Sambrailo, Garcia, Schofield, Mathis etc.... In the past 10 years they have taken 6 Olinemen in the first 3 rounds, and only 1 in the 1st round. Those guys are Bolles, Schofield, Sambrailo, Franklin, Beadles, and Walton. Every single one was a miss and I don't consider that making a concerted effort to upgrade the Oline. They finally have a chance to get a potential truly dominant player on the line and they take another pass rusher. Games are won and lost up front and for some reason the FO thinks that is the lowest priority on the team.
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                          • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                            I can't believe you guys are trying to defend Bolles and the Oline moves the FO has made. Bolles does not have the tools/skills to be successful. He is a marginal starter and always will be. It's not like he is a 22 year old player. He is already 26 and has no idea what he is doing out there. He gets beat both mentally and physically.

                            Fan...you say the Watson pick was questionable based on his history but you defend the Veldheer signing?

                            The FO has whiffed time after time on the Oline...Franklin, Bolles, Watson, Donaldson, Sambrailo, Garcia, Schofield, Mathis etc.... In the past 10 years they have taken 6 Olinemen in the first 3 rounds, and only 1 in the 1st round. Those guys are Bolles, Schofield, Sambrailo, Franklin, Beadles, and Walton. Every single one was a miss and I don't consider that making a concerted effort to upgrade the Oline. They finally have a chance to get a potential truly dominant player on the line and they take another pass rusher. Games are won and lost up front and for some reason the FO thinks that is the lowest priority on the team.
                            Comparing Veldheer and Watson with respect to injury history is terribly off base. Veldheer played all 16 games in four of eight seasons. He also had seasons with 13 and 11 games in that span. Overall he’s been a durable lineman.

                            Don’t confuse effort to improve the line with the decisions. If it was the lowest priority they would not have used a 1st round pick on Bolles and signed free agents like Leary.

                            Instead of acknowledging the plays Chubb has made you continue shifting to other topics. I understand you preferred Nelson and everyone has a preference. I was a proponent of Nelson however, I’m not going to overlook the positive impact and potential of Chubb. Chubb and Nelson could both turnout to be pro bowl players. I think either would have been good picks for the Broncos.
                            Last edited by Fantaztic7; 09-24-2018, 07:29 AM.

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                            • We should be looking at LT early in this coming draft with full intention of moving Bolles to RT to see we can salvage his career.
                              New England Patriots GM

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                              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                                Comparing Veldheer and Watson with respect to injury history is terribly off base. Veldheer played all 16 games in four of eight seasons. He also had seasons with 13 and 11 games in that span. Overall he’s been a durable lineman.

                                Don’t confuse effort to improve the line with the decisions. If it was the lowest priority they would not have used a 1st round pick on Bolles and signed free agents like Leary.

                                Instead of acknowledging the plays Chubb has made you continue shifting to other topics. I understand you preferred Nelson and everyone has a preference. I was a proponent of Nelson however, I’m not going to overlook the positive impact and potential of Chubb. Chubb and Nelson could both turnout to be pro bowl players. I think either would have been good picks for the Broncos.
                                He hasn't made many plays to acknowledge.

                                Veldheer may have been more healthy but he was a marginal player. Leary is a 2nd/3rd tier player.
                                Last edited by broncos SB2010; 09-24-2018, 09:06 AM.
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