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  • Originally posted by Rastic View Post
    Let's compare all of Barrett's years instead of this single season where, with the addition of Chubb, his playing time has diminished.

    Year Total Snaps (def.) Total Sacks
    2015 497 5.5
    2016 420 1.5
    2017 664 4
    2018 191 2
    So in 1,772 total snaps on defense in four years, Barrett has 13 sacks. Chubb in 461 total snaps has 8 sacks.

    I don't know Barrett's pressures for the same years but last year he had 43. This year Chubb has 32 pressures in half a season as a rookie.

    Shaq is a good player who has been up and down. But comparing his career thus far to Chubb's, it suggests the drop off is real.
    I agree there is a drop off between Chubb and Barrett. How is the drop off when comparing nelson to Garcia/Leary, and McGovern?

    Best 3 defenses (yardage) in the league is the Buffalo Bills, jags, and Ravens. They are all below .500. Top 3 defenses by points allowed are dallas, Titans, and Ravens. Titans have the best record at 5-4. You win in this league now with offense, not defense.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 11-12-2018, 12:44 PM.
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    • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
      Bolles, Leary, McGovern, Veldheer don't bring anything to the table....
      You can only have one, Nelson or chubb we have chubb. There is a significant drop off between shaq and chubb Rastic pretty much shot down any argument to the contrary...

      All in saying is neither are a bad pick, both improve their teams. You either improve offense or defense not both, we don't have to focus on defense in the future thanks to chubb, that need is filled.
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      • It’s crazy to think if we did things a little differently. Okung stayed at LT, if we drafted Nelson, Paradis, Leary, and if we drafted Ramcyk instead of Bolles. We would have one of the best olines. I know Okung wasn’t playing great with us but Bolles makes him look like a HOFer

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        • Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
          It’s crazy to think if we did things a little differently. Okung stayed at LT, if we drafted Nelson, Paradis, Leary, and if we drafted Ramcyk instead of Bolles. We would have one of the best olines. I know Okung wasn’t playing great with us but Bolles makes him look like a HOFer
          Yet Keenum would still be our QB and VJ would still be our coach, so we'd still suck....

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          • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
            You can only have one, Nelson or chubb we have chubb. There is a significant drop off between shaq and chubb Rastic pretty much shot down any argument to the contrary...

            All in saying is neither are a bad pick, both improve their teams. You either improve offense or defense not both, we don't have to focus on defense in the future thanks to chubb, that need is filled.
            we didn't have a need at OLB. It was the strongest position on the team. we still have many other needs, including defense, such as CB and ILB and the defense isn't very good.
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            • Those saying Nelson would dramatically improve our offense Seems to ignore half our sacks are not becsuse of protection but because case holds the ball to long

              To compare what Nelson is doing with a true franchise qb to what you think he would do with a bottom tier backup
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              when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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              • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                Those saying Nelson would dramatically improve our offense Seems to ignore half our sacks are not becsuse of protection but because case holds the ball to long

                To compare what Nelson is doing with a true franchise qb to what you think he would do with a bottom tier backup
                Good point, and denvers ground game so far this year has been one of the best so how much would he really impact the team? Will always be a what if debate

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                • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                  Yet Keenum would still be our QB and VJ would still be our coach, so we'd still suck....
                  A boat load of time can make even the most avg QBs look great. Foles is a prime example of that. Avg QB that was given time and took their team to a SB. Wasn’t given as much time in the beginning of the year and he underperformed.

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                  • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                    Those saying Nelson would dramatically improve our offense Seems to ignore half our sacks are not becsuse of protection but because case holds the ball to long

                    To compare what Nelson is doing with a true franchise qb to what you think he would do with a bottom tier backup
                    That’s cool. So 12 of his 24 sacks are his fault. Their other 12 are are olines fault. That’s still more than his halfway mark from last year. He has been sacked/ hit more than his whole year in Minn in Denver already. So I would put all the blame on him. Our Oline is sooooo bad. On top of that, Bolles owes Lindsey like 100 yards from his holding penalties.

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                    • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                      Those saying Nelson would dramatically improve our offense Seems to ignore half our sacks are not becsuse of protection but because case holds the ball to long

                      To compare what Nelson is doing with a true franchise qb to what you think he would do with a bottom tier backup
                      I don't think anyone is saying he would "dramatically" improve the offense but he would be a big step in the right direction. We have one of the worst Olines in the league and it has been that way for years. It is just frustarting for me to watch the way this FO builds a team which is from the outside in. I believe you build a team from the inside out. Without a solid interior, offense and defense, it is hard to have sustained success. Maybe if you have a truly elite QB you can cover those issues but we don't.

                      Every draft, the top picks are used on guys farthest from the ball...OLB, DBs, WR, RB with an occasional OT thrown in but those are OT that aren't even considered the top prospect available and are wasted picks.

                      Here is a list of interior players taken in the first 3 rounds since Elway took over:

                      Gotsis
                      Schofield (if you count him as an OG)
                      Sly
                      Wolfe
                      Irving

                      That's 8 drafts with 27 selections and only 4 or 5 have been used on interior positions and 2 of them were reaches (Sly and Schofield). That is one of the main reasons they are so soft up front.
                      Last edited by broncos SB2010; 11-12-2018, 04:27 PM.
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                      • Chubb or Nelson at #5 was a win-win situation. You could not miss with the pick. However, it looks like Elway was ready to make the trade with the Bills [and leave Nelson on the board] until the Browns passed on Chubb.

                        With the current o-line, we are #9 in rushing and #1 in yards per carry. At the same time, we have Chubb keeping pace with Jevon Kearse’s rookie sack record, which is something very special. Moving forward, I believe it will be easier to find quality guards in the draft than find a complete edge player like Bradley Chubb.
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                        • Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                          Chubb or Nelson at #5 was a win-win situation. You could not miss with the pick. However, it looks like Elway was ready to make the trade with the Bills [and leave Nelson on the board] until the Browns passed on Chubb.

                          With the current o-line, we are #9 in rushing and #1 in yards per carry. At the same time, we have Chubb keeping pace with Jevon Kearse’s rookie sack record, which is something very special. Moving forward, I believe it will be easier to find quality guards in the draft than find a complete edge player like Bradley Chubb.
                          Agreed. Both are great picks with tremendous upside.

                          Looking at it differently, drafting Nelson rather than Chubb likely does little to change the many problems on offense.

                          But at this point the guessing on whom would be a better pick is a guessing game.

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                          • Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                            Chubb or Nelson at #5 was a win-win situation. You could not miss with the pick. However, it looks like Elway was ready to make the trade with the Bills [and leave Nelson on the board] until the Browns passed on Chubb.

                            With the current o-line, we are #9 in rushing and #1 in yards per carry. At the same time, we have Chubb keeping pace with Jevon Kearse’s rookie sack record, which is something very special. Moving forward, I believe it will be easier to find quality guards in the draft than find a complete edge player like Bradley Chubb.
                            I believe that is the exact thinking Elway had in mind on draft day, I supported the pick all the way. I cant stand that stupid Dmac still preaches that Elway should had taken Allen or Rosen. Rosen may blossom but I don't see Dmac's true fascination (Josh Allen) making the NFLs top 20 QB list.

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                            • Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                              Chubb or Nelson at #5 was a win-win situation. You could not miss with the pick. However, it looks like Elway was ready to make the trade with the Bills [and leave Nelson on the board] until the Browns passed on Chubb.

                              With the current o-line, we are #9 in rushing and #1 in yards per carry. At the same time, we have Chubb keeping pace with Jevon Kearse’s rookie sack record, which is something very special. Moving forward, I believe it will be easier to find quality guards in the draft than find a complete edge player like Bradley Chubb.
                              I guess this is where we disagree. Good OLB are much easier to find than a dominant OG and brings into question Elway's philosophy on drafting players.....passing on Nelson (if Chubb was gone)
                              Last edited by broncos SB2010; 11-12-2018, 07:45 PM.
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                              • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                                I guess this is where we disagree. Good OLB are much easier to find than a dominant OG.
                                Is this why edge rushers historically dominate the first picks of the draft compared to guards? Because they're "much easier to find"?

                                And Nelson is the "dominant" guard, but Chubb, with 8.0 sacks and with a chance to reach Jevon Kearse's record, is just "good"?
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