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  • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    why is it hard and unfair to say one player has played better than another?
    Because apples to oranges when comparing players on one team vs players on other teams and especially when those players play entirely different positions. You think TJ is head and shoulders better than Chubb, well he should be at this point he has a whole season more under his belt. TJ is better than Von too since he had a better rookie year? You dont want count sacks as a success measurement but that is exactly what you are doing when comparing TJ vs Chubb
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    • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
      Because apples to oranges when comparing players on one team vs players on other teams and especially when those players play entirely different positions. You think TJ is head and shoulders better than Chubb, well he should be at this point he has a whole season more under his belt. TJ is better than Von too since he had a better rookie year? You dont want count sacks as a success measurement but that is exactly what you are doing when comparing TJ vs Chubb
      I edited the post you quoted.

      no. it isn't. I said leighton Vander Esch had a better season than Chubb too. He has 0 sacks. Sacks are just 1 thing to look at, not everything, which is what many Chubb believers are only looking at.
      Last edited by broncos SB2010; 01-01-2019, 11:22 AM.
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      • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
        I edited the post you quoted.

        no. it isn't. I said leighton Vander Esch had a better season than Chubb too. He has 0 sacks. Sacks are just 1 thing to look at.
        That's what I meant when I said its apples to oranges comparing players that play different positions. You just simply can't count one as success and the other as a flop when they have completely different job descriptions. LVE's job is to get tackles and its Chubbs job to get sacks.....I fail to see how one is a success and the other isn't???????
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        • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
          That's what I meant when I said its apples to oranges comparing players that play different positions. You just simply can't count one as success and the other as a flop when they have completely different job descriptions. LVE's job is to get tackles and its Chubbs job to get sacks.....I fail to see how one is a success and the other isn't???????
          I guess that is the difference in our opinions. I don't think sacks are Chubb's only job/responsibility.
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          • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
            why is it hard and unfair to say one player has played better than another?

            I wouldn't be saying anything at all if so many weren't saying how great of a season Chubb had. There is even a thread about him being better than Miller. So many people just look at the stat line of 12 sacks and jump to conclude that he is a beast and had a great season when the reality is, it was just so-so. Because of his sack numbers, people seem to overlook the fact that he missed quite a few tackles and was relatively ineffective in other aspects of his game . Players such as Von, JJ, and Donald put up sack numbers but they also play well in other areas as well. Chubb may develop into one of those players over time but right now he is still a developmental project when it comes to being a complete player.

            Maybe he, and Von Miller, should have focused more on developing his weak areas instead of focusing on breaking the rookie sack record.
            Of course he is.....he is a rookie for crying out loud!! You think JJ, Von, Donald, Kuechly don't miss tackles???

            JJ is a beast and only had 48 tackles and 5.5 sacks his rookie year

            Donald had 38 tackles and 9 sacks......and he has never had more than 43 tackles in a single season, he is terrible in the run game. All he wants to do it rush the passer. If you watch his film he blows by runners all the time just trying to get to the QB.
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            • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
              I guess that is the difference in our opinions. I don't think sacks are Chubb's only job/responsibility.
              Why can’t you just root for a player that’s on your team? Reading everything you’re saying it seems like you’re hoping he fails so you can be proven right. I’m not always excited about the players we draft but man I’ll always root for them to succeed.
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              • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                agreed.

                My opinion of him going into the draft was that he would be a solid player against the run and a 6 sack guy. I think that is what we are getting. There is nothing wrong with that. I was ripped for my opinion. The hype from many on these boards after the draft was that Von and Chubb and would be this unstoppable pass rushing wrecking crew this season was way over the top. There was talk of him being a probowler and/or DROY...before he even took a snap. Do you think that is what he is looking like right now? I would bet no one here thinks so. So yes, his hype was too much. Now those same people who claimed he would come in and dominate right away are now saying...wait, it's only been a couple weeks, give him a season or two. That seems an awful lot like backpedaling to me.

                I highly agree its way to early to judge anyone from the draft, including Lindsay, but as of right now, at this moment, he is not living up to the hype. I bet you agree with that.
                Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                why is it hard and unfair to say one player has played better than another?

                I wouldn't be saying anything at all if so many weren't saying how great of a season Chubb had. There is even a thread about him being better than Miller. So many people just look at the stat line of 12 sacks and jump to conclude that he is a beast and had a great season when the reality is, it was just so-so. Because of his sack numbers, people seem to overlook the fact that he missed quite a few tackles and was relatively ineffective in other aspects of his game . Players such as Von, JJ, and Donald put up sack numbers but they also play well in other areas as well. Chubb may develop into one of those players over time but right now he is still a developmental project when it comes to being a complete player.

                Maybe he, and Von Miller, should have focused more on developing his weak areas instead of focusing on breaking the rookie sack record.
                I don't think it's a matter of what others are saying about Chubb. See your prediction of how many sacks he would achieve - he doubled your prediction. Chubb is in the conversation for DROY: https://www.nbcsports.com/washington...eek-14#slide-7

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                • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                  Roby hasn't played too well in the entire time he has been here. He has had many chances to show otherwise, they are way past second chances.
                  I don't know that I agree with that, of course it could just be my extreme dislike for the coaching staff that is driving my opinions.
                  [URL=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/Saddletramp69/media/asdf.jpg.html][/URL
                  Adopted player Lindsey

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                  • Originally posted by gerontion View Post
                    If nobody can convince anybody why do you keep bringing it up?
                    Because this is his irrational hill to die on.
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                    • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                      you just want to fight and criticize. I know what I have seen and I don't have to go back through every play to make my point. you wouldn't accept it anyway.
                      Question - if you hadn't set such low expectations of Chubb post draft, would we still be having this conversation?

                      If Chubb has a huge year next season, will there be the inevitable "gimme sack" argument, "gimme tackle" argument, "gimme pressure" argument, and maybe the dreaded "gimme coverage" argument?
                      To infinity...and beyond.

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                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                        I don't think it's a matter of what others are saying about Chubb. See your prediction of how many sacks he would achieve - he doubled your prediction. Chubb is in the conversation for DROY: https://www.nbcsports.com/washington...eek-14#slide-7
                        we will see how he does next season.
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                        • Originally posted by Lumiere View Post
                          Question - if you hadn't set such low expectations of Chubb post draft, would we still be having this conversation?

                          If Chubb has a huge year next season, will there be the inevitable "gimme sack" argument, "gimme tackle" argument, "gimme pressure" argument, and maybe the dreaded "gimme coverage" argument?
                          If he has a great year, I will admit my mistake and move on. What will you do if he has a poor year?
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                          • Chubb’s final numbers:

                            Forced Fumbles - 2
                            Fumbles Recovered - 1
                            Sacks - 12
                            Combined Tackles - 60 / 41 Solo / 19 Assists
                            Tackles for Loss - 14
                            QB Hits - 21
                            QB Pressures - 56 (18 more than next highest rookie)
                            Passes Defended - 1

                            I think he played well and there are areas he can improve for next season. One analysis compares the sacks to pressures ratio and suggests he could have generated more sacks. The analysis also said it could be an indicator sacks will pull back next season. With the coaching changes hopefully they’ll find more ways to leverage his strengths.

                            It would have been sweeter to see the team have a better season however he looks like a strong piece of the foundation to build upon.

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                            • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                              Because this is his irrational hill to die on.
                              Just because you disagree doesn't make it irrational. It's the truth. Most here just won't admit it because all they want to see is sacks. If all you want to base a guys play on is number of sacks...go ahead, he then had a great season. If, on the other hand, you want to look at his overall quality of play, then you might just agree with me.

                              I looked on google to see if there was any supporting evidence for what I believe. I found this:
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                              • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                                I don't put much, if any, stock into the PFF grades, especially for linemen, but...is he grading out as the top rookie..or just best out of the top 8? Out of curiosity...does anyone know the other grades for 1st round rookies?
                                Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                                Just because you disagree doesn't make it irrational. It's the truth. Most here just won't admit it because all they want to see is sacks. If all you want to base a guys play on is number of sacks...go ahead, he then had a great season. If, on the other hand, you want to look at his overall quality of play, then you might just agree with me.

                                I looked on google to see if there was any supporting evidence for what I believe. I found this:
                                See bold. Why use PFF to support the case when you don’t take any stock in it?

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