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  • oh well..... too late... just like the 2012 divisional game at home.

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    • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
      I don't think anyone is debating that if you have the #1 pick in the draft you have a greater chance of getting an elite QB, but the selling the farm for a high draft pick QB has tremendous flaws, as most high draft pick QB's flame out or fail rise above mediocrity. The last 5 SB's have been won by one #1 draft pick signed as a FA, two have been won by a 6rd pick and two have been won by 3rd round picks.

      After pick 11 in the draft there is very little success in drafting elite QBs! In the last 15 drafts has only produced three QBs drafted with picks 12-32 that have won playoff games - Aaron Rogers, Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow.

      Andrew Luck was the highest rated QB going into the draft after Elway and as great as he is and as much as he has achieved it is the "too short" 3rd rounder on a low contract with a generational defense that has had the most success. How do you think a team that sold their future in 2010 to draft Bradford would fare compared to the route Broncos took? Which QB in the 2011 draft would you have sold the farm for - would you have given Von Miller + a 1st ex for Cam Newton?

      The key to winning it all is balance and that is on the team. History has shown that an elite QB - like Peyton Manning, John Elway, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rogers.... can carry a team to the playoffs pretty much every year, but when you meet the "Big Boys" you have to have the complete team and getting that requires deep draft success, great coaching and complete team.

      A simple fact is no QB making top 10 QB salary has won the Superbowl for a very long time, and a huge part of Tom Brady's success is that he lets his team have money to pay non QBs.
      Maybe pock 12 through 32 has only produced 3 but I feel like your over looking QBs pasted that Wilson and Foles won super bowls even though they are not first rounder. Kaepernick Dalton Keenum, among others who have won play off games lower then that. I feel like your leaving our a big group of players
      sigpic
      oakland raders gm
      latavis murray trade bait

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      • Originally posted by elway7777 View Post
        I doubt we would have to trade up. The only bad teams that would draft a QB in the first round would be Broncos and Miami. Everyone else already has a quality starters or young QBs that their team has invested in.
        A lot can happen in two years. Considering the upcoming draft qbs, i would bet more on having to trade up than not.
        Giants, jags tampa bay, sf could also be looking
        Glen Haven Fire

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        • Originally posted by armedequation View Post
          A lot can happen in two years. Considering the upcoming draft qbs, i would bet more on having to trade up than not.
          Giants, jags tampa bay, sf could also be looking
          I agree. Forgot about he Bucs and Giants.

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          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
            They don’t call them because they don’t help to add to the point total and that’s all the league is worried about because to them points equal more money. Until ratings start to go down they won’t listen to the hardcore fans that care about the actual integrity of the game.
            Just like opposing O lines never get called for holding on Von. Gets held every play.

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            • Originally posted by elway7777 View Post
              I agree. Forgot about he Bucs and Giants.
              2 weeks ago tb wouldnt have been in the discussion. The first few weeks of the season have a wierd way of making teams look better than they are. We have been a prime example of that unfortunately.
              Glen Haven Fire

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              • Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                Maybe pock 12 through 32 has only produced 3 but I feel like your over looking QBs pasted that Wilson and Foles won super bowls even though they are not first rounder. Kaepernick Dalton Keenum, among others who have won play off games lower then that. I feel like your leaving our a big group of players
                The whole premise of the OP is that you should mortgage the future for a top pick at QB. The whole point is that selling the farm to draft a Johnny Football is not a smart move!

                For the draft capital ex. Redskins used on RGmee they could have drafted 5-10 QBs of the Jimmy Grappolo/Russell Wilson mold.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Humberg View Post
                  Wow. I really appreciate the time you are taking to do this. But let me help you out because I think a different strategy would work better. You are going back like 30 years and working forward. Today's pass happy NFL is so much different than it was back then and it's much more dependent on the quarterback. So what Bradshaw or Simms did back in the day (which I will disagree with you, I think they were quite impressive), isn't relevant.

                  Instead, find me the franchise qbs of the NFL today and tell me how many were first round draft picks. Or tell me of the recent past, say since 2007, how many Superbowl qbs were first rounders (I'll help you out, of the 24 quarterbacks 13 were first rounders, 6 were Tom Brady who is a statistical outlier and deeply skews the analysis, anyone who knows modeling would say he should not be factored into any kind of predictive model, so only 5 of the Superbowl qbs were drafted outside the first round not named Tom Brady). Or just tell me where is the most likely place to find a franchise qb if not in the first round (since that seems to be your argument). Or simply tell me why you don't want a good quarterback because I guess that's the last thing you could argue.

                  I guess I'm having a hard time with your posts, you seem to be arguing against my suggested approach without really suggesting one yourself. Or is this current version of the Broncos your ideal approach? Lesser qbs we overpay for to get mediocre results? Tell me what you know.
                  You miscounted.
                  The Broncos didn't draft Manning in the first round.
                  They obtained him as a Free Agent.

                  I have finished with all the Super Bowls since this morning, but too busy to update the results.

                  They do not support your simplified theory; even when just counting the years you cherry-picked.

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                  • Now that it is being discussed.... expect the call against a Bronco runner today that will kill a drive or score.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 18Broncos View Post
                      You miscounted.
                      The Broncos didn't draft Manning in the first round.
                      They obtained him as a Free Agent.

                      I have finished with all the Super Bowls since this morning, but too busy to update the results.

                      They do not support your simplified theory; even when just counting the years you cherry-picked.
                      Ok. So a few posters are ragging on the original idea here. So let's just be clear who is disagreeing with what:

                      1) Who here doesn't think we need a great QB?

                      2) Who here thinks that there is an alternative strategy to selecting a QB in the first round that gives a higher chance of success (higher probability of getting a great QB)?

                      I see a lot of people just taking their shots at the ideas, but it's always easy to pick things apart.

                      For the folks that don't want to use a high first rounder on a QB, and let's face it this idea includes, unless Denver tanks (which we might) trading up to get a good prospect as opposed to a project or a question mark, what would be your alternative? Come up with a counter proposal.

                      So far, it seems like people are advocating selecting the best QB of all time in the 6th round when that is available, or securing one of the all-time great QBs, who makes an improbable come-back from injury, in free agency. Ok, so where are those QB's currently, who are they? Lets find them if you are right. Would you have paid $80 million for Cousins? Would you have kept Paxton Lynch? Trevor Siemien? Kyle Sloter? Mark Sanchez? Brock? Signed Bridgewater? Traded for Brees? I want to hear your ideas instead of your pot shots.

                      It seems the Broncos have been recently unsuccessful with 2 QBs selected late first round, 1 selected in the 2nd round, 2 in the seventh round, 1 undrafted and 2 via free agency. None of those have worked out. So I don't see where all of these QB gems are hanging out at.

                      I have clearly laid out my thoughts, and they have been supported in part by a few here. Let's hear some other ideas that will fix this mess.
                      The only place that success comes before work is in the dictionary. - Vince Lombardi

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Humberg View Post
                        Ok. So a few posters are ragging on the original idea here. So let's just be clear who is disagreeing with what:

                        1) Who here doesn't think we need a great QB?

                        2) Who here thinks that there is an alternative strategy to selecting a QB in the first round that gives a higher chance of success (higher probability of getting a great QB)?

                        I see a lot of people just taking their shots at the ideas, but it's always easy to pick things apart.

                        For the folks that don't want to use a high first rounder on a QB, and let's face it this idea includes, unless Denver tanks (which we might) trading up to get a good prospect as opposed to a project or a question mark, what would be your alternative? Come up with a counter proposal.

                        So far, it seems like people are advocating selecting the best QB of all time in the 6th round when that is available, or securing one of the all-time great QBs, who makes an improbable come-back from injury, in free agency. Ok, so where are those QB's currently, who are they? Lets find them if you are right. Would you have paid $80 million for Cousins? Would you have kept Paxton Lynch? Trevor Siemien? Kyle Sloter? Mark Sanchez? Brock? Signed Bridgewater? Traded for Brees? I want to hear your ideas instead of your pot shots.

                        It seems the Broncos have been recently unsuccessful with 2 QBs selected late first round, 1 selected in the 2nd round, 2 in the seventh round, 1 undrafted and 2 via free agency. None of those have worked out. So I don't see where all of these QB gems are hanging out at.

                        I have clearly laid out my thoughts, and they have been supported in part by a few here. Let's hear some other ideas that will fix this mess.
                        If you look at the starting QBs in today's NFL, 21 of them are 1st round picks. Indeed, 15 of them are top 5 overall picks. Of course, drafting a franchise QB is hardly an exact science, but the evidence seems to show you're much more likely to get one high in the 1st round than anywhere else.

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                        • Originally posted by gerontion View Post
                          If you look at the starting QBs in today's NFL, 21 of them are 1st round picks. Indeed, 15 of them are top 5 overall picks. Of course, drafting a franchise QB is hardly an exact science, but the evidence seems to show you're much more likely to get one high in the 1st round than anywhere else.
                          Here here. You effectively made the argument that you are more likely than not to find a starting QB in the first round (65%)! Excellent post backed up with evidence from today's NFL. So the Broncos are in the 35% that have not gone this route and are deservedly in the bottom third of the league.
                          The only place that success comes before work is in the dictionary. - Vince Lombardi

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                          • We picked a qb in the first with paxton. Its more than just picking whatever qb in the top 5. It also has to do with staff and development (in no way am i saying thats what happened with paxton).

                            At this moment i dont see a qb in next years draft that will change things. Im no master of film so take that for what you will. If the plan is for fromm or tua to come in and start from day 1 then i would use this next offseason as an opportunity to put the best possible team around them. Stop with players like brock/watson/veldheer/cravens that are mediocre when they can hit the field which is usually never so far for us. Stop overdrafting players like langely and yiadom.

                            Get coaches that back up their great practice talk with getting execution from their players.

                            Its a long road but thats a start.
                            Glen Haven Fire

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                            • New Blood

                              I think we should activate AJ Johnson and Demarcus Walker for our defense. We desperately need the help with inside pass rush and run support (Walker) and we need a ton of help at ILB (Johnson).

                              I know Demarcus didn't play up to his potential last year but it's time to see if his weight gain and move back to a natural position will work out for him. I also realize Johnson has been out of football for years and it takes time to get re-acclimated, but there is no test like real in game experience.

                              I'm not full blown panic yet, but it's close after how the defense looked yesterday. I mean they couldn't move the ball an inch on Jacksonville, and our defense isn't that bad talent wise is it? Maybe I'm just holding on to yesterdays but I still feel we have a ton of talent. Plus zero sacks from Von, Chubb, Shaq, and Ray??? What are yalls thoughts?

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                              • The sooner we move on from Marshall and Davis to Jewell and AJ the better the tackling stats will show.

                                Both ILB positions should be in play; personally I don't mind Gotsis/Peko/Wolfe front 3 but on 3rd and long, Walker is a better inside rusher then Ray.

                                -GB2

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