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Lets talk Fangio Defense - What Changes?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by broncolee View Post
    Well, if that’s the case they better trade Harris.

    I can already hear him throwing shade at the coaches because he doesn’t like the defense, rather than taking responsibility to play the way he’s being asked to play.
    Are you referring to Harris' complaint during the season? If so and if I recall correctly it had nothing to do with a preference with zone or man (zone always ends up in man coverage anyway) it was stagnation, predictability, and overall poor scheming.

    The quarterbacks are getting the ball out fast, they’re not thinking about where they have to go,’’ Harris said, via Mike Klis of 9News. “So, we’ve got try to confuse them as a defense. Disguise better as a whole in the secondary and move around. We can’t just be stagnant, sitting ducks. Right now, we’re stagnant, we’re not moving around, we’re not doing anything to confuse the quarterback and it’s very easy right now for them.’
    https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-bro...ant-122454725/
    "Definitely, especially for me,” Harris said after the game. “When I just can’t change the game and can’t affect the game, that’s what really frustrates me. When I can’t change the game and they’re kind of scheming like that. I want to make plays and help this team win. They just wouldn’t let me.”
    https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/...t-year-broncos
    The MHR article makes it clear that for Harris it was personal but for wont to do more and feeling the secondary was hamstrung by poor decision making (in that instance for Simmons making a bad play against a receiver "should have been [in] double-coverage."

    Doesn't sound like he isn't a team player but rather was frustrated just as equally as us fans were.

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    • #32
      Every time a ball is completed over Chris Harris, he immediately points the finger at others and starts distributing the blame. That's very annoying IMO. If you ask Harris, he might say he never gave up a completion in his life.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
        Every time a ball is completed over Chris Harris, he immediately points the finger at others and starts distributing the blame. That's very annoying IMO. If you ask Harris, he might say he never gave up a completion in his life.
        I've never seen so many quick outs in the flat against man coverage actually be the safety's fault.

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        • #34
          Yeah, let's run Harris out of Denver. And trade Von Miller. Because it worked so well when we ran off Aqib Talib.

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          • #35
            Moving goal posts... first he'll throw shade at the coaches now it's how he (and nearly every CB in the league) reacts on the field.

            Ok.

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            • #36

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                Good!! His defensive play calling the last dozen years resulted in multiple top 10....sometimes top 5 defense

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
                  I would go after William's. Been good to have Bowles but that ship sailed .
                  Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                  Gregg Williams was let go. Bring him in.
                  Williams runs a different defense than Fangio. Fangio's base defense alignment will remain similar to what Denver has been running since Phillips first came in. Except Fangio will mix things up on first down by having the 3 linemen head up on the two tackles and the centre and they will two gap, which means they'll take on blocks and try to defend the gap to either side of them. They'll still lineup in gaps most of the time but this wrinkle will be different and can help keep the linebackers clean to make more plays.

                  Williams meanwhile is a straight 4-3 guy. I wouldn't mind switching to a 4-3, but the philosophy is different than what Fangio knows and believes in.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                    Every time a ball is completed over Chris Harris, he immediately points the finger at others and starts distributing the blame. That's very annoying IMO. If you ask Harris, he might say he never gave up a completion in his life.
                    Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                    I've never seen so many quick outs in the flat against man coverage actually be the safety's fault.

                    I thought I was the only one who noticed that.

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                    • #40
                      In San Francisco, Fangio’s defenses ranked in the top five in yards allowed for four straight seasons and the top three in points allowed in three of the four seasons.
                      At its core, Fangio’s scheme is a 3-4 – or could be a “30-front” – somewhat relies on strong down linemen who can occupy their opponent off the snap to keep inside linebackers clean and also create single-block opportunities for outside linebackers to create pressure off the edge.

                      Fangio combines man and zone concepts – often on the same play – his defense tries to create pre-snap confusion on the quarterback in hopes of not easily revealing what the defense is in, in regards to zone or man. This would fit what Harris is talking about.

                      I used to be in favor of the 4-3 defense but not so much over the last few years. I think a defense has more flexibility in alignments and points of pass pressure - disguising where the pressure is coming from. Within a 3-4, any of the four linebackers can easily be disguised and incorporated into the rush, which forces protection schemes to account for all – or none – of them on any given play.
                      Also in regards to the pool of talent coming from college, DEs are typically are a little undersized and can be used and developed as edge rushers or OLBs. Chubbs is actually a little big for most edge rushers but has the speed and talent to play the OLB/Edge position. At least he has demonstrated that this year.
                      IMO, the Broncos personnel is suited for Fangio's "base 3-4" which is really all that Fangio needs to implement his style of defense. We do have FAs that might need to be retained or replaced depending on availability and who else might be in FA. Peko can fit the personnel need and scheme but might not be back and is a little old. Zach Kerr can fit the personnel need but the Broncos would have to re-sign him. They should be open to using a high draft pick on a solid NT/DT too.
                      Fangio's defense has shown elements of a 4-3 scheme - like most teams do nowadays - with pre-snap alignments. He does - when with the 49ers, not too sure with the Bears - deploy over and under fronts too.
                      Behind these fronts, he mixes his coverages, playing both man and zone principles with his underneath and deep defenders. He didn't use a lot of exotic blitzes, relying on down linemen to occupy blockers so edge rushers can get single match-ups ... in theory. With the Broncos having 2 great edge rushers, if they can succeed in getting single match-ups, especially with Von they will have a lot of sacks ... still.

                      So, IMO Fangio's defense would not be a major change from what the Broncos have been doing the last few years, including in SB50. The defense should be better as disguising it's intentions but that is just theory, they would also have to execute it too. Having faster, quality ILBs will be a priority ... Davis and Jewell are fine being in the mix but adding a LB like Moseley or maybe a Jordan Hicks would be helpful. I am also on board with drafting an ILB, but it all depends on how the draft plays out on how early to draft one.
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                      • #41
                        I am super excited !! Vic was a Great Hire !!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
                          Good!! His defensive play calling the last dozen years resulted in multiple top 10....sometimes top 5 defense
                          Earlier today on 104.3 The “Fangio” they interviewed Seth Payne, former DT who played for Fangio. Seth said Fangio’s strength is the ability to teach players how to play smarter. He said after a month his teammates on offense said he was cheating because he knew everything they were doing pre-snap. A reporter from The Chicago Tribune said he pulls players aside 1:1 to watch film and explain how the player could do more in specific situations. It’s not hard to see why he’s had so much success.
                          Last edited by Fantaztic7; 01-09-2019, 03:49 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Changes you ask? Probably better start with finding a DC. Woods is most likely GONE. Thank you Jesus!!!

                            [URL=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/Saddletramp69/media/asdf.jpg.html][/URL
                            Adopted player Lindsey

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Saddletramp View Post
                              Changes you ask? Probably better star with finding a DC. Woods is most likely GONE. Thank you Jesus!!!

                              I honestly don't think Woods did that badly for us considering all the injuries. Woods at this point has been a better defensive coordinator than Vance Joseph was when we hired him. It also seems that in his second year he was doing better in limiting big plays against us. Maybe it wont' matter if Woods goes since we have Fangio now.
                              Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                                I honestly don't think Woods did that badly for us considering all the injuries. Woods at this point has been a better defensive coordinator than Vance Joseph was when we hired him. It also seems that in his second year he was doing better in limiting big plays against us. Maybe it wont' matter if Woods goes since we have Fangio now.
                                As I just heard on the radio, we allowed less points per game this year than our 2015 season.

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