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  • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    They’re sitting with Bolles and Leary, Flacco just isn’t the QB to convert down and 20 distances. This team isn’t going to score 20 points a game with so many penalties and no turnovers and so few short drives by the defense.
    Boles and Leary didn't toss the pick in field goal range this week when we lost by 2...

    Yeah the penalties have been brutal, but they often happen between the 20s. Not in the red zone. Flacco has been pretty bad in his red zone visits so far and not due to penalties.
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    • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
      Boles and Leary didn't toss the pick in field goal range this week when we lost by 2...

      Yeah the penalties have been brutal, but they often happen between the 20s. Not in the red zone. Flacco has been pretty bad in his red zone visits so far and not due to penalties.


      It’s not just that they’re usually between the 20s though, they’re usually killing drives that are gaining momentum or killing drives before they even have a chance to begin.

      Yes Flacco hasn’t been great in the red zone, although Hamilton’s drop didn’t help but the playcalling has been inexplicably bad. The play on the INT was a terrible call for multiple reasons. We had ran a ton of pick plays all game and Chicago had already adjusted and Freeman was rolling and had the defense worn out. I’d have ran him 3 straight times, maybe even 4. Even then there was a window for Fant that Flacco could have completed but he’s stuck on the play design. The WTH screen in Oakland was stupid, rolling out with Flacco and giving him only 1/2 of the redzone to read is insanely stupid because usually in this scheme you have a QB who can create for himself and Flacco can’t do that and the lack of success running the zone stretch limits his chances of success even further. Scangerello is getting too cute in the red zone and outsmarting himself.

      Yes Flacco has struggled in the red zone but he isn’t getting any favors down there either whether it’s a terrible play call/design or whatever the case may be. Flacco can’t shoulder the load and win games for us, we all know that, well everyone except Scangerello. Flacco needs to have well designed plays because he doesn’t deviate from the design and he can’t create opportunities with his legs like other QBs that have played in this scheme. Kubiak had a keen understanding of this when he had him in Baltimore and that’s why he had a great year in it despite being a terrible scheme fit.

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      • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
        They’re sitting with Bolles and Leary, Flacco just isn’t the QB to convert down and 20 distances. This team isn’t going to score 20 points a game with so many penalties and no turnovers and so few short drives by the defense.
        To me that’s just extra criticism on me. If he is what people are making out to be why can he not convert down and 20 other than maybe 3rd down?

        We shouldn’t be happy at all with a qb that can’t chip away at first and 20 and still pick up a first down.

        Probably shouldn’t be happy if he can’t do it on 2nd and 20 either.

        It wouldn’t be a problem if it weren’t for what people keep saying is that he is captain check down. 3 five yard passes won’t convert. Which is what he does. But if it’s first and 20 unless we call a run play that is stuffed I see no reason an efficient NfL offense can’t pick up 6.7 yards per play and convert. Obviously you can’t sustain that over the course of a game. But after a penalty there is no reason an efficient offense with an above average qb shouldn’t be able to convert that if the hold comes on first down.

        The one defense I will give you is others on the offense will probably help hinder the ability to convert. It’s not all on Flacco.
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        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
          It’s not just that they’re usually between the 20s though, they’re usually killing drives that are gaining momentum or killing drives before they even have a chance to begin.

          Yes Flacco hasn’t been great in the red zone, although Hamilton’s drop didn’t help but the playcalling has been inexplicably bad. The play on the INT was a terrible call for multiple reasons. We had ran a ton of pick plays all game and Chicago had already adjusted and Freeman was rolling and had the defense worn out. I’d have ran him 3 straight times, maybe even 4. Even then there was a window for Fant that Flacco could have completed but he’s stuck on the play design. The WTH screen in Oakland was stupid, rolling out with Flacco and giving him only 1/2 of the redzone to read is insanely stupid because usually in this scheme you have a QB who can create for himself and Flacco can’t do that and the lack of success running the zone stretch limits his chances of success even further. Scangerello is getting too cute in the red zone and outsmarting himself.

          Yes Flacco has struggled in the red zone but he isn’t getting any favors down there either whether it’s a terrible play call/design or whatever the case may be. Flacco can’t shoulder the load and win games for us, we all know that, well everyone except Scangerello. Flacco needs to have well designed plays because he doesn’t deviate from the design and he can’t create opportunities with his legs like other QBs that have played in this scheme. Kubiak had a keen understanding of this when he had him in Baltimore and that’s why he had a great year in it despite being a terrible scheme fit.
          I agree with you here that the offensive staff is likely not setting anyone on the offense up for much success.

          But the same could be said for the past regime while Keenum was here.

          I don’t blame Flacco for all our issues. I just don’t credit him as not being a problem at all.

          But I’m finding myself having less and less patience with my childhood hero every week. Because he hand selected the failing roster as well as what could possibly be two bad coaching staffs in a row.
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          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
            It’s not just that they’re usually between the 20s though, they’re usually killing drives that are gaining momentum or killing drives before they even have a chance to begin.

            Yes Flacco hasn’t been great in the red zone, although Hamilton’s drop didn’t help but the playcalling has been inexplicably bad. The play on the INT was a terrible call for multiple reasons. We had ran a ton of pick plays all game and Chicago had already adjusted and Freeman was rolling and had the defense worn out. I’d have ran him 3 straight times, maybe even 4. Even then there was a window for Fant that Flacco could have completed but he’s stuck on the play design. The WTH screen in Oakland was stupid, rolling out with Flacco and giving him only 1/2 of the redzone to read is insanely stupid because usually in this scheme you have a QB who can create for himself and Flacco can’t do that and the lack of success running the zone stretch limits his chances of success even further. Scangerello is getting too cute in the red zone and outsmarting himself.

            Yes Flacco has struggled in the red zone but he isn’t getting any favors down there either whether it’s a terrible play call/design or whatever the case may be. Flacco can’t shoulder the load and win games for us, we all know that, well everyone except Scangerello. Flacco needs to have well designed plays because he doesn’t deviate from the design and he can’t create opportunities with his legs like other QBs that have played in this scheme. Kubiak had a keen understanding of this when he had him in Baltimore and that’s why he had a great year in it despite being a terrible scheme fit.
            Many of the problems with Flacco that you guys are referencing span multiple seasons. You can't just pretend like he just started playing football when he joined the Broncos.

            The issue I have right now is I thought he was just a placeholder now with the extension chances are he plays at least two years. If he does we are doomed. We need to find a young franchise QB and build out from there so Lock needs to play

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            • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
              I agree with you here that the offensive staff is likely not setting anyone on the offense up for much success.

              But the same could be said for the past regime while Keenum was here.

              I don’t blame Flacco for all our issues. I just don’t credit him as not being a problem at all.

              But I’m finding myself having less and less patience with my childhood hero every week. Because he hand selected the failing roster as well as what could possibly be two bad coaching staffs in a row.
              I’m not one of the people saying he’s better than Keenum, it was a lateral move talent wise while adding more money to the position which is why I didn’t want Flacco. Keenum would actually be a much better fit in this system, I believe the redskins employ a similar scheme as well. But he’s here now so we have to make it work.

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              • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
                I agree with you here that the offensive staff is likely not setting anyone on the offense up for much success.

                But the same could be said for the past regime while Keenum was here.

                I don’t blame Flacco for all our issues. I just don’t credit him as not being a problem at all.

                But I’m finding myself having less and less patience with my childhood hero every week. Because he hand selected the failing roster as well as what could possibly be two bad coaching staffs in a row.
                I've defended Elway for awhile now. If we can't get to 8-8 or better, he needs to be looking for work.
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                • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                  The constant defense of flacco is "he's got so many yards" great, where is the points, that's what win games.
                  Not a big fan of the Flacco signing (which some may already know), but though it's very, very early, you are correct. 16th in O, but 28th in scoring. They don't count yards amassed when they award victories.

                  For that matter, and this isn't all on Joe, but scoring late in games is not a formula for success, given it does not allow you to play the style of game you want. It takes some of the run game out of the equation.

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                  • You guys are overlooking the fact that Flacco should of had 2 tds against the Raiders. One perfectly placed pass to Hamilton. In which he suddenly had Roberto Duran hands and Sanders tripping on the big pass . He could have walked in the endzone . Now the int was a terrible play by Flacco . I dont know why he didnt go left with Sutton who was 1v1. I truly believe if players did what they were supposed to we are 2-0 heading into Lambo. Anyone who thought Flacco would come in here and be flawless are kidding themselves . Hes not stellar but he did put us in the position to win both games .

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                    • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
                      To me that’s just extra criticism on me. If he is what people are making out to be why can he not convert down and 20 other than maybe 3rd down?

                      We shouldn’t be happy at all with a qb that can’t chip away at first and 20 and still pick up a first down.

                      Probably shouldn’t be happy if he can’t do it on 2nd and 20 either.

                      It wouldn’t be a problem if it weren’t for what people keep saying is that he is captain check down. 3 five yard passes won’t convert. Which is what he does. But if it’s first and 20 unless we call a run play that is stuffed I see no reason an efficient NfL offense can’t pick up 6.7 yards per play and convert. Obviously you can’t sustain that over the course of a game. But after a penalty there is no reason an efficient offense with an above average qb shouldn’t be able to convert that if the hold comes on first down.

                      The one defense I will give you is others on the offense will probably help hinder the ability to convert. It’s not all on Flacco.
                      The offense might overcome 1-2 holding penalties but not 6.

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                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                        The offense might overcome 1-2 holding penalties but not 6.
                        It certainly cannot overcome an easy pass rush or consistently needing extra blockers.

                        If we didnt use our RBs more as blockers and receivers then as actual RBs out of necessity the entire game would not have to rest on Flaccos shoulders.
                        2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                        • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                          The offense might overcome 1-2 holding penalties but not 6.
                          Death 10yds at a time Grrrrrr.😖

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                          • Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                            It certainly cannot overcome an easy pass rush or consistently needing extra blockers.

                            If we didnt use our RBs more as blockers and receivers then as actual RBs out of necessity the entire game would not have to rest on Flaccos shoulders.
                            When Ja’Wuan James returns, they should put Wilkinson at LT. If Leary doesn’t improve they need to bench him and try Schlottman at RG. Bolles should be benched.

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                            • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
                              Death 10yds at a time Grrrrrr.😖
                              Grrrrrr is right!

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                              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                                When Ja’Wuan James returns, they should put Wilkinson at LT. If Leary doesn’t improve they need to bench him and try Schlottman at RG. Bolles should be benched.
                                Leary will likely improve if the Tackle play does. Most of the penetration comes from the outside, but he has had a play or 2 it seemed he was slow to come off the line.
                                2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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