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  • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
    Jacksonville had the same problems however with a New QB They are now Trending up a QB truly make or break your Team and right now Denver has Case Keenum 2.0 Look at what happend When the Carolina Panthers played their Rookie QB in one game he has already looked 10 times better than Cam Newton change is good.
    I totally agree that Flacco is not really an improvement over Keenum. Jax and Car both have better rosters, IMO. I just don’t think this team has a very good roster across the board. Maybe a QB change would “spark” something, but my expectations are low for this team. I personally don’t think a change at QB would make this a playoff team.

    I suppose what I’m really saying is I’m pretty indifferent when it comes to who is starting at QB. I’m all for Lock getting a shot when he’s off IR. Heck, I wouldn’t be opposed to Brandon Allen getting a shot at some point.

    An 0-3 team has a very low chance of making the playoffs. So what are you playing for at that point? Maybe fight your way to mediocrity and a worse drafting position?

    This is not a playoff team. I’m ok with that. I’ve accepted it, so anything better than we’ve seen so far will be a pleasant experience for me. I don’t really care what the starting rotation looks like anymore. Just want to see better football.
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    • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
      I totally agree that Flacco is not really an improvement over Keenum. Jax and Car both have better rosters, IMO. I just don’t think this team has a very good roster across the board. Maybe a QB change would “spark” something, but my expectations are low for this team. I personally don’t think a change at QB would make this a playoff team.

      I suppose what I’m really saying is I’m pretty indifferent when it comes to who is starting at QB. I’m all for Lock getting a shot when he’s off IR. Heck, I wouldn’t be opposed to Brandon Allen getting a shot at some point.

      An 0-3 team has a very low chance of making the playoffs. So what are you playing for at that point? Maybe fight your way to mediocrity and a worse drafting position?

      This is not a playoff team. I’m ok with that. I’ve accepted it, so anything better than we’ve seen so far will be a pleasant experience for me. I don’t really care what the starting rotation looks like anymore. Just want to see better football.
      I mean do you not think we would be 3-0 with a proper franchise QB? I definitely do. We've been in all three games, but in the end Flacco just doesn't have the ability to elevate the team, not even a little bit. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we'd be a contender or anything, but it's clear our biggest issue is at QB, if only because that's by far the most important position in football and ours is backup quality.

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      • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
        Flacco is an average to below average QB playing on a bad team. Sure, an all pro QB would make things better and more fun to watch, but it would take an all pro QB to raise up this team.

        Flacco isn’t a guy who is going to overcome all of this team’s deficiencies. I personally don’t see how anyone can look at this roster and coaching staff and think this team is only a QB away - other than an all world QB, which isn’t very realistic.

        Our TEs and WRs are not playing at a high level. This team has an issue with drops. Holding is an issue. Defense is an issue. Special teams is an issue. Play calling and communication is an issue.

        I’m not a huge Flacco fan, but he’s only one of many issues with this franchise.
        I mean the guy is 27th rated passer in the league right now and only has two TDs in three games. I don't think it would have taken an all-pro to have won two or even all three of these games, just a quality starter rather than a guy who should probably be a backup.

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        • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
          I mean do you not think we would be 3-0 with a proper franchise QB? I definitely do. We've been in all three games, but in the end Flacco just doesn't have the ability to elevate the team, not even a little bit. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we'd be a contender or anything, but it's clear our biggest issue is at QB, if only because that's by far the most important position in football and ours is backup quality.
          Yes, a franchise level QB would make this team better. I don’t know about 3-0, but definitely better. We don’t have that. We haven’t had that in a long time. So, I agree that a way better QB would make for a better record, but that still doesn’t negate the roster and coaching issues across the board.
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          • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
            I mean the guy is 27th rated passer in the league right now and only has two TDs in three games. I don't think it would have taken an all-pro to have won two or even all three of these games, just a quality starter rather than a guy who should probably be a backup.
            Probably. We just don’t have a quality starter. We don’t have quality starters across the board. I totally agree that a better QB makes for a better record. Still think the roster is lack luster and coaching is questionable.
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            • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
              Probably. We just don’t have a quality starter. We don’t have quality starters across the board. I totally agree that a better QB makes for a better record. Still think the roster is lack luster and coaching is questionable.
              I mean obviously this isn't a great roster, but it's also not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. The bottom line is that Elway has just completely failed when it has come to the QB position, and that makes everything else look worse. If we had any of the following QBs Elway could have drafted we are probably 2-1 or 3-0 right now: Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brissett, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Lamar Jackson. Instead we drafted two useless giraffes, and if we're realistic, he probably chose the worst QB in this past class as well. It's definitely not looking good between Lock and Minshew right now.

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              • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
                I mean obviously this isn't a great roster, but it's also not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. The bottom line is that Elway has just completely failed when it has come to the QB position, and that makes everything else look worse. If we had any of the following QBs Elway could have drafted we are probably 2-1 or 3-0 right now: Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brissett, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Lamar Jackson. Instead we drafted two useless giraffes, and if we're realistic, he probably chose the worst QB in this past class as well. It's definitely not looking good between Lock and Minshew right now.
                Agreed on the QB problem. I don’t think this roster is the worst in the league, but we sure have a lot of holes and very little depth.
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                • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
                  I mean obviously this isn't a great roster, but it's also not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. The bottom line is that Elway has just completely failed when it has come to the QB position, and that makes everything else look worse. If we had any of the following QBs Elway could have drafted we are probably 2-1 or 3-0 right now: Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brissett, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Lamar Jackson. Instead we drafted two useless giraffes, and if we're realistic, he probably chose the worst QB in this past class as well. It's definitely not looking good between Lock and Minshew right now.
                  Minshew has played what 2 1/2 games and we’re saying he’s better than Lock now? Look I like Minshew but I doubt he’s a guy you win with long term. Mayfield looked poised to be a big time QB after last season, so far this season it looks like he’s been figured out, meanwhile Lamar Jackson was the opposite of Mayfield. The truth probably lies somewhere in between with those 2.

                  Lock improved from game to game in the preseason. Work ethic isn’t an issue with him, physical ability isn’t an issue with him. Now all he needs to do is show that he can do it mentally which he won’t get to do until he’s in the game. But compared to where he was when he started his first game in college to how he ended in college, from game 1 of the preseason to his last preseason game, the trend is that he improves over time. That’s a good trend to have for a QB.

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                  • I don't think Flacco has been bad at all this year. Not great but not bad either. I'd like to see what we can do with him this year and if we really can't get it together and have a terrible record later in the season, let Drew Lock have a shot and see what he can do. I see the two of them truly competing for the job next season but I hope Lock is able to win the job and then we see what he can do truly leading the team.
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                    • Originally posted by snowman33 View Post
                      I don't think Flacco has been bad at all this year. Not great but not bad either. I'd like to see what we can do with him this year and if we really can't get it together and have a terrible record later in the season, let Drew Lock have a shot and see what he can do. I see the two of them truly competing for the job next season but I hope Lock is able to win the job and then we see what he can do truly leading the team.
                      I find it so hard to believe that Lock will get a shot. GMs and coaches don’t want a bad record or “tanking season” on their resume.

                      Even if we’re are 0-11 Lock still won’t see the field for the reason that a bad record follows everyone involved around.

                      There was a suck for luck campaign back in 2011 but that team was not a mess that John created. This mess is and he’s not going to further that mess by purposely tanking with Lock.

                      I know you didn’t say that but that is most likely what will happen!
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                      • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                        I find it so hard to believe that Lock will get a shot. GMs and coaches don’t want a bad record or “tanking season” on their resume.

                        Even if we’re are 0-11 Lock still won’t see the field for the reason that a bad record follows everyone involved around.

                        There was a suck for luck campaign back in 2011 but that team was not a mess that John created. This mess is and he’s not going to further that mess by purposely tanking with Lock.

                        I know you didn’t say that but that is most likely what will happen!
                        If we continue to trot out the same guy that got us to 0-11 I’d say that would be viewed as tanking more so than switching to the guy who’s billed as the future

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                        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                          Minshew has played what 2 1/2 games and we’re saying he’s better than Lock now? Look I like Minshew but I doubt he’s a guy you win with long term. Mayfield looked poised to be a big time QB after last season, so far this season it looks like he’s been figured out, meanwhile Lamar Jackson was the opposite of Mayfield. The truth probably lies somewhere in between with those 2.

                          Lock improved from game to game in the preseason. Work ethic isn’t an issue with him, physical ability isn’t an issue with him. Now all he needs to do is show that he can do it mentally which he won’t get to do until he’s in the game. But compared to where he was when he started his first game in college to how he ended in college, from game 1 of the preseason to his last preseason game, the trend is that he improves over time. That’s a good trend to have for a QB.
                          Usually a QB who looks good as a rookie in his first few games ends up being good long-term. Likewise, Elway usually picks the wrong QB in any given draft class. Those two statements are pretty hard to argue against.

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                          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                            If we continue to trot out the same guy that got us to 0-11 I’d say that would be viewed as tanking more so than switching to the guy who’s billed as the future
                            Well in that situation they’d have to determine who gives them the best chance to win and even at 0-11 they’d most likely still tell us that it is Flacco
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                            • Originally posted by snowman33 View Post
                              I don't think Flacco has been bad at all this year. Not great but not bad either. I'd like to see what we can do with him this year and if we really can't get it together and have a terrible record later in the season, let Drew Lock have a shot and see what he can do. I see the two of them truly competing for the job next season but I hope Lock is able to win the job and then we see what he can do truly leading the team.
                              What is your definition of bad? Being ranked 27th in passer rating, having a 1:1 TD/Int ratio, and only two TD passes in three games is pretty bad in my book.

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                              • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                                Well in that situation they’d have to determine who gives them the best chance to win and even at 0-11 they’d most likely still tell us that it is Flacco
                                If they're 0-11 it's pretty clear they have no idea what does or doesn't give them the best chance to win, no?

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