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  • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    While this is clearly turning into an insanely biased Flacco hate thread, it is absolutely asinine if people actually believe that it is Flacco that is the problem. This is the result right now of ProFootballReference's expected points.

    Had the offense played with an average defense and ST then we would have won all four games.
    For the defense we would have lost all four by an average of 25 points/game

    8.29 -16.92 1.51
    13.75 -21.04 -6.29
    8.29 -27.33 -2.94
    14.91 -35.30 -3.66

    45.24 -100.59 -11.38

    It is sickening to keep reading repetitive posts from the same ten negative posters that all have their axes to grind based on some obscure parameter taken from thin air.

    Offense in the first four games last year was -1.25, defense -24.69 and ST +6.98

    The whole hate parade is just ludicrous.
    The numbers are nice and all but how are they calculated? Yes the defense needs to find a way to get off the field but the offense also needs to find ways to stay on the field to keep the defense rested. Assigning an arbitrary number through random statistical analysis to a phase of the game isn’t a good use of analytics IMO. For example, Spencer had a big return the other game, surely that raises the special teams score right? But it also puts the offense in a much better position to score, is that factored into the offensive output? And more importantly, how does that factor into the defensive output, because generally it’ll lead to a shorter offensive drive and put the defense out on the fiel that much faster. I’m sure time of possession is factored into the equation somehow but that’s a broad statistic that doesn’t take into account the specific variables of the game on a drive by drive/play by play basis.

    Not hating on Flacco, I don’t think he’s a huge problem for us, but I also don’t think he’s apart of the solution either. He’s like a RB that gets what is blocked for him, Flacco will take what the defense gives him and occasionally a little more and occasionally a little less. He’s completely average on a team that needs more than average to win games.

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    • Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
      Of course there will be differing opinions, but that's not the point and it really doesn't matter. Can's point still stands, regardless of whether or not message boards are cheery while it happens.

      The fact remains that Flacco is neither a good enough QB to win with us now nor young and talented enough to be our future.The sooner we figure out if Lock checks either of those boxes, the better.
      Thx....you expressed what I said better than I did. Boards will be boards. We will whine at times, especially when losing. But that is not the concern I, or you, or many others have. What's the plan? How does Flacco fit, how does Lock fit? Do either fit? And most important, who will fit here in 2 years? If we don't know that relatively soon, we will draft and go into FA without knowing our true direction.

      A number of young guns are getting their chance already. As to results, not all good. But I believe Jones is "the guy", at least from initial assessment. He will flounder a bit, and not look the part at other times. But I have a strong feeling that The Giants have a much better idea of who will be "the guy", and can now, finally move forward. Starting to look pretty good, those last 2 drafts.

      I just want to know...is Lock the one? Flacco is not the one, long term. So even basic logic tells me that we are in a quandary until we figure that part out, and another year might pass without us having a clue. That would be concerning.

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      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
        Bingo......
        Close doesn't count in Bingo jeez ......lol🤣

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        • The bottom line is this..The QB gets all the accolades Higher Pay ect When They Win They Also get the Blame with they are 0-4. Joe's costly Interceptions have Killed us There is no Lie about it the Interception on the Goal Line vs the Bears just cannot happen The Interception vs the Jags that Turned the Momentum and The Mere Fact of what did or shall I say did not happen in the Entire 3rd Quarter is Unacceptable. Joe is nothing more than a Case Keenum 2.0 so I do understand that John Elway states that he will keep Swinging on the QB Position However he keeps Striking Out I just Hope that We Hit a Home Run with Drew Lock or the #2 Pick ( QB ) .....

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          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
            The numbers are nice and all but how are they calculated? Yes the defense needs to find a way to get off the field but the offense also needs to find ways to stay on the field to keep the defense rested. Assigning an arbitrary number through random statistical analysis to a phase of the game isn’t a good use of analytics IMO. For example, Spencer had a big return the other game, surely that raises the special teams score right? But it also puts the offense in a much better position to score, is that factored into the offensive output? And more importantly, how does that factor into the defensive output, because generally it’ll lead to a shorter offensive drive and put the defense out on the fiel that much faster. I’m sure time of possession is factored into the equation somehow but that’s a broad statistic that doesn’t take into account the specific variables of the game on a drive by drive/play by play basis.

            Not hating on Flacco, I don’t think he’s a huge problem for us, but I also don’t think he’s apart of the solution either. He’s like a RB that gets what is blocked for him, Flacco will take what the defense gives him and occasionally a little more and occasionally a little less. He’s completely average on a team that needs more than average to win games.
            I fully agree with your considerations regarding the stats. This is the explanation of the stats - https://www.sports-reference.com/blo...pected-points/

            When it comes to the discussion of Flacco's qualities or lack thereof, and whether he is part of our future for the next couple of years, it really boils down to what part the team leadership feels that Flacco has in the current situation. At the moment the fact that we are not at least 2-2 falls on the defense, but with the games we have played 3-1 should have been the target. Except for first half this week we have not had both the passing and the running game complement each other.

            Offense has had to many errors that have stopped drives, and defense had not ben able to create short fields and takeaways. While the amount of fumbles are ok and the INT% (2%) is good, it still does not help if our D does not match in takeaways.

            We are currently 2 games out of a WC bay, so the blow it all up/panic button is premature. If this keeps up we need to see changes on the team to see what it does, but say Lock plays the last 6 games, then he still must be projecting to be better than Flacco in 2020, and I see little proof that he is.

            I am quite certain that if you

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            • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
              Close only matters in horse shoes and hand grenades...
              was that the point I made or are you just flinging crap like a zoo monkey?

              the point is in two of the 4 games, the offense under flacco, gave the defense a lead...that is a undeniable FACT!!!

              it doesn't matter what else transpired before that moment....you get a lead...you should expect your defense to close it out...period!
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              • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                To offer a counter point to your "the defense is terrible" we're middle of the pack in scoring defense, we've allowed one point less this year than the Kansas City chiefs. 10 points less allowed than the 2-2 raiders, we've given up 2 points more than the 2-2 browns, we've allowed 3 points more than the 3-1 Seahawks, the 3-1 saints? We've allowed one more point than them...

                Y'all are hell bent on saying "but flacco have us a late lead" had flacco scored more than a handful of points, the defense is doing well enough that we're in the same ballpark with winning teams.

                The difference between us and the Kansas City chiefs right now is literally that they can score points on offense and we cannot.

                So quit feeding me this "he scored late and got us close" line of garbage. If he'd have put up points, the defense wouldn't have had to have fought as hard as they did all game.
                so did we bring flacco here to play like mahomes...WAS THAT YOUR EXPECTATION? GEEZ NO WONDER YOU HATE HIM


                here all along I thought the plan was a solid starter, managing the offense, scoring some points and a defensive genious was going to win us some games
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                • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                  So being 26th in the league in scouting and averaging 17.5 ppg is good? That's enough to get it done in this league? Being in the bottom ten in the league in offensive scoring means the offense is good and not a valid concern?

                  Got it, we have low standards around these parts.

                  Good to know that being completely discontent with 17 freaking points or less every game is an "axe to grind"
                  flacco is 12th in offensive passing...that's about where anybody rational would have put him
                  he should be tied with Rodgers, and Watson and a bunch more with 6 tds if Hamilton didn't drop an easy one

                  so is it flaccos fault the rush offense has dropped from 12th in 2018 to 21st ...is it flaccos fault the offense only has two RB tds on the season down from 5 in week four last year
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                  • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                    so did we bring flacco here to play like mahomes...WAS THAT YOUR EXPECTATION? GEEZ NO WONDER YOU HATE HIM


                    here all along I thought the plan was a solid starter, managing the offense, scoring some points and a defensive genious was going to win us some games
                    No, obviously he's incapable, but at his price tag, you'd expect more points on the board...
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                    • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                      flacco is 12th in offensive passing...that's about where anybody rational would have put him
                      he should be tied with Rodgers, and Watson and a bunch more with 6 tds if Hamilton didn't drop an easy one

                      so is it flaccos fault the rush offense has dropped from 12th in 2018 to 21st ...is it flaccos fault the offense only has two RB tds on the season down from 5 in week four last year
                      Yards don't win games, points do....
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                      • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                        Yards don't win games, points do....
                        ya...that was brilliant...are you watching the blind side or something?

                        fact...the offense put up enough points to win two games late in the 4th qrt....what happened after that?

                        what happened after the offense gave the team a lead late in the 4th qrt of two games...did we win or did A, B, allow the opposing team to drive down with ease and score

                        circle one


                        A. flacco

                        B. defense
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                        • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                          To offer a counter point to your "the defense is terrible" we're middle of the pack in scoring defense, we've allowed one point less this year than the Kansas City chiefs. 10 points less allowed than the 2-2 raiders, we've given up 2 points more than the 2-2 browns, we've allowed 3 points more than the 3-1 Seahawks, the 3-1 saints? We've allowed one more point than them...

                          Y'all are hell bent on saying "but flacco have us a late lead" had flacco scored more than a handful of points, the defense is doing well enough that we're in the same ballpark with winning teams.

                          The difference between us and the Kansas City chiefs right now is literally that they can score points on offense and we cannot.

                          So quit feeding me this "he scored late and got us close" line of garbage. If he'd have put up points, the defense wouldn't have had to have fought as hard as they did all game.
                          just to be clear he actually put us in the lead 2 times, not "close" as you claim...the defense gave the lead away = FACT

                          now i don't want to put words in your mouth or anything but it appears to me that you may very well be implying that flacco & the offense should make sure that when they score with under 2:00 remaining in a game that said score should put the broncos up by 2 scores to ensure victory, thus letting the defense off the hook when they give up a score in the final 2:00 of play.

                          also one last thing, the offense did IN FACT score 24...at what point do you stop saying score more 31? how out 35? if they put up 42 is that enough for the defense to hold a lead?

                          last time i checked it was the job of the defense to keep the other team from scoring but if they can't do that then just blame the offense for not putting up 58
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                          • Some people get too emotional invested in their stances and points of view and come across quite petty. How hard is it to say, Joe Flacco has came through in the clutch twice in the 4th quarter driving us down the field to take late leads, and the defense gave it up. But, Joe also hasn't played well enough to manufacture enough points through the complete 60 minutes of every game this season, and has made a couple suspect decisions and throws which has led to untimely turnovers which resulted in points. These are facts, Joe is decent, I wouldn't say he is the reason we are losing, but he also isn't doing enough for us to win.

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                            • With the amount of money invested in defense,
                              they should be able to hold the lead for the W.

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                              • Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                                Some people get too emotional invested in their stances and points of view and come across quite petty. How hard is it to say, Joe Flacco has came through in the clutch twice in the 4th quarter driving us down the field to take late leads, and the defense gave it up. But, Joe also hasn't played well enough to manufacture enough points through the complete 60 minutes of every game this season, and has made a couple suspect decisions and throws which has led to untimely turnovers which resulted in points. These are facts, Joe is decent, I wouldn't say he is the reason we are losing, but he also isn't doing enough for us to win.
                                This is a level-headed post, very good!!!!

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