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  • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
    They don’t have to learn blocking schemes like OL or route combinations like WRs, at least not to be effective. The reason you don’t see lots of 600+ receiving yards from rookie TEs is because a TE, rookie or veteran, rarely produces 600+ yard seasons unless they are featured receivers in an offense (which rookie TEs almost never are). I agree that the blocking side can be tough to learn, but TEs with the physical tools Fant has normally produce in the receiving game quickly because they are a huge matchup issue.
    Go back and look at Shannon Sharpe's, Tony Gonzalez, or Antonio Gates' rookie seasons. There is nothing to say Fant will ever sniff the air those TEs breathe, but even good and great TEs take time to grow.
    Last edited by Rastic; 10-14-2019, 09:15 AM.

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    • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
      Unlike the Titans, the Chiefs have a bad defense. I expect the Broncos to score 20+ points.
      20 probably isn't enough to beat the chiefs, and 20 wouldn't even be a good offensive game for most teams.

      Depressing considering we have people excited about the idea of maybe putting up 20 in a game

      Broncos have scored 20 points or more twice in the last 10 games.

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      • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
        Last year 11 different TEs had 600+ yd seasons. There were multiple 1000+ yd TEs as well. Maybe, 2 of them were the feature of their offense. So no, it's not uncommon for veteran TEs to have 600+ receiving seasons. You're just flat out wrong on TEs just like you're wrong on a lot of your narratives.
        11 TEs across 32 teams had 600+ yard seasons, and you’re telling me its not uncommon and they aren’t featured in their respective offenses? (Featured meaning that they are at least semi-regularly the first or second option in passing plays.)

        Anyway, this is off-topic and seems to just be a way for you to not actually defend your position on the OL and Flacco. You say Scangs is calling the offense around protection issues, but there’s just no proof of that. Every WCO has lots of quick passes, and every Shanny-tree offense has rollouts. That’s just part of the offense. And we are still seeing slower developing plays here and there as is the norm for the offense. The issue is that Flacco is a bad QB with almost no mobility who is slow to make his progressions and who can’t hit the tight windows required in the NFL because he’s not accurate enough. Overall, our offense is not running more quick pass plays or more QB motion plays than is normal for the scheme. Flacco just sucks.

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        • Originally posted by Starbroncs View Post
          20 probably isn't enough to beat the chiefs, and 20 wouldn't even be a good offensive game for most teams.

          Depressing considering we have people excited about the idea of maybe putting up 20 in a game

          Broncos have scored 20 points or more twice in the last 10 games.
          Well the colts beat chiefs in Arrowhead with 19pts. Key factor is can our OL dominate their DL and run it down their throats forcing Mahomes to sit on the sideline.

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          • Originally posted by Rastic View Post
            Go back and look at Shannon Sharpe's, Tony Gonzalez, or Antonio Gates' rookie seasons. There is nothing to say Fant will ever sniff the air those TEs breathe, but even good and great TEs take time to grow.
            As rookies, Gonzalez didn’t start a single game, and Gates started just 11. Both had nearly 400 yards receiving. Obviously they were not the primary or secondary options on most passing plays as TEs (that’s not how most offenses are designed), so their production as rookies who didn’t start much, if at all, supports my position honestly.

            Shannon Sharpe, on the other hand, was a 7th round pick who barely saw the field as a rookie (and was drafted to play WR originally). He doesn’t even apply to this discussion.

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            • You guys are missing on 1 key fact. Every player is different , times and schemes are different as well. It's all a roll of the dice .

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              • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
                Unlike the Titans, the Chiefs have a bad defense. I expect the Broncos to score 20+ points.
                I can’t remember how many times over the last few seasons I’ve read the offense will score a lot against a bad defense. If it happens great but I wouldn’t count on it.

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                • Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
                  11 TEs across 32 teams had 600+ yard seasons, and you’re telling me its not uncommon and they aren’t featured in their respective offenses? (Featured meaning that they are at least semi-regularly the first or second option in passing plays.)

                  Anyway, this is off-topic and seems to just be a way for you to not actually defend your position on the OL and Flacco. You say Scangs is calling the offense around protection issues, but there’s just no proof of that. Every WCO has lots of quick passes, and every Shanny-tree offense has rollouts. That’s just part of the offense. And we are still seeing slower developing plays here and there as is the norm for the offense. The issue is that Flacco is a bad QB with almost no mobility who is slow to make his progressions and who can’t hit the tight windows required in the NFL because he’s not accurate enough. Overall, our offense is not running more quick pass plays or more QB motion plays than is normal for the scheme. Flacco just sucks.
                  Originally posted by BeelzeBob View Post
                  11 TEs across 32 teams had 600+ yard seasons, and you’re telling me its not uncommon and they aren’t featured in their respective offenses? (Featured meaning that they are at least semi-regularly the first or second option in passing plays.)

                  Anyway, this is off-topic and seems to just be a way for you to not actually defend your position on the OL and Flacco. You say Scangs is calling the offense around protection issues, but there’s just no proof of that. Every WCO has lots of quick passes, and every Shanny-tree offense has rollouts. That’s just part of the offense. And we are still seeing slower developing plays here and there as is the norm for the offense. The issue is that Flacco is a bad QB with almost no mobility who is slow to make his progressions and who can’t hit the tight windows required in the NFL because he’s not accurate enough. Overall, our offense is not running more quick pass plays or more QB motion plays than is normal for the scheme. Flacco just sucks.
                  It's not uncommon for veteran TEs about a third of the league does it. Admit you're wrong, take your L, and move on.

                  As for protection, Flacco's YPA is tied for 24th in league, again quick developing routes is a big reason why. He is also tied for 6th in time to throw. He has to get the ball out fast. Yet on the same coin we are tied for 6th in sacks given up. Basically, we throw short and quick, and yet give up a lot of sacks. Why is that? Well, the OL can't sustain blocks on long developing routes. To put this into perspective to a similarly run offense in SF. Jimmy G is 7th in YPA, 4th in time to throw, but is 30th in sacks. So Flacco is just as quick to make throws, but they have to use shorter routes with a worse OL.
                  What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                  I don't know and I don't care

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                  • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                    It's not uncommon for veteran TEs about a third of the league does it. Admit you're wrong, take your L, and move on.

                    As for protection, Flacco's YPA is tied for 24th in league, again quick developing routes is a big reason why. He is also tied for 6th in time to throw. He has to get the ball out fast. Yet on the same coin we are tied for 6th in sacks given up. Basically, we throw short and quick, and yet give up a lot of sacks. Why is that? Well, the OL can't sustain blocks on long developing routes. To put this into perspective to a similarly run offense in SF. Jimmy G is 7th in YPA, 4th in time to throw, but is 30th in sacks. So Flacco is just as quick to make throws, but they have to use shorter routes with a worse OL.
                    Flacco has always been a short-route thrower. He was under 7 yards per attempt prior to coming to Denver. He has a lesser career average than Brian Griese, who was Captain Check Down.
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                    • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                      Flacco has always been a short-route thrower. He was under 7 yards per attempt prior to coming to Denver. He has a lesser career average than Brian Griese, who was Captain Check Down.
                      He's at 7.3 now, but what's glaring in difference between him and Jimmy G is the sack difference.
                      What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                      I don't know and I don't care

                      Comment


                      • Flacco is what he is. There are at least (I included Brees with the least attempts of 48) 25 QBs ahead of him in passer rate. Be a good starter when you are waiting for your guy to either show up or return.

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                        • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                          He's at 7.3 now, but what's glaring in difference between him and Jimmy G is the sack difference.
                          I just think saying he's getting rid of the ball quicker due to the sacks which is leading to shorter throws isn't an accurate statement. The sacks are high, and it's difficult to tell what's on the o-line and what's on him, but he's always been a short-route thrower.
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                          • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                            I just think saying he's getting rid of the ball quicker due to the sacks which is leading to shorter throws isn't an accurate statement. The sacks are high, and it's difficult to tell what's on the o-line and what's on him, but he's always been a short-route thrower.
                            Right. When you look at his accuracy on passes beyond 5 yards, historically, it's not great. The last 5 years more so than the first half of his career. This year is more of the same, completing roughly 50% of his passes over 5 yards. That's in the bottom 10 of the league. Again though, like you said, it is hard to blame that on the OL or offense when that has been pretty par for the course from him since 2014.

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                            • Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                              Right. When you look at his accuracy on passes beyond 5 yards, historically, it's not great. The last 5 years more so than the first half of his career. This year is more of the same, completing roughly 50% of his passes over 5 yards. That's in the bottom 10 of the league. Again though, like you said, it is hard to blame that on the OL or offense when that has been pretty par for the course from him since 2014.
                              Historically it was a different offense for Flacco. Apples and Oranges. I can say that while also giving up the 6th most sacks, we are also the 4th most penalized teams for holding. I would say there is a correlation between bad technique and the sacks given up.
                              What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                              I don't know and I don't care

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                                I think Lock definitely adds a different dimension. The boot action will definitely be more effective. Flacco's lack of mobility is killing that aspect. The DL or LB has no fear or need to commit to Flacco, so easy completions are slowly going away.
                                Yeah, that was what made that boot so dangerous back in the Plummer days, you never knew if he was going to take off running.
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