Flacco

[Capt. Jack]

Flacco is Elways "Plan A" this Year so we gotta roll with it.

[Fantaztic7]

In six games the Broncos offense went up against four top 10 defenses in points allowed per game:

#3 Bears - 13.8
#5 Titans - 15.3
#8 Packers - 18.6
#10 Chargers - 19.6

They also played the Jaguars at #13 with 21.8 allowed per game.

Broncos scored:

14 vs Bears
16 vs Titans
16 vs Packers
20 vs Chargers
24 vs Jaguars

In three of four games against top 10 scoring defenses the Broncos offense scored more than the average. The Jags have a good defense and we scored above the average allowed.

By the numbers, strictly speaking the offense is above average relative to the defenses they’ve played. Carry on.....

[Capt. Jack]

I think Flacco is keeping us competitive while we are installing a new system.

[orange crush75]

Thank you for that stat on the Defenses . I was trying to point that out earlier but didnt have the numbers in front of me . It's just a dumb argument on what's average and what isnt lol. Theres worse QBs to have come through the league and Better ones as well. Heck I dont care if Flacco only averages 1.5 tds a game if our running avg 2 . I dont care about flashy fantasy football stats . What I care about are wins . Sometimes they're ugly but you get no points for fashion. Heck if we were to win the 2 games we should have people would still be on here complaining about how terrible Flacco is. People like to complain just to do it.

[Capt. Jack]

I remember playing the Chargers years ago with low scoring games like 6-3, etc. They were boring defensive struggles, but I was always happy for the win.
I never cared too much about the Style points.
I was in awe the year We were putting up a couple 50 burgers with Manning, that was "twilight zone" for me, that was fun to watch.
Wins are always fun, anyway we can get them.

[Amy-Selic]

meh. That's the way I see it.



Who said he can't be criticized? Read through several threads. It creeps into everything. --- Peanut the member

Peanut the mod --- The mod notes and cleaning have nothing to do with people's opinions. It has everything to do with how members are treating each other. Just to clarify that in case it's needed.

I can post actual examples from this topic if you'd like but i think that is a bit off topic and not very helpful to anyone and i doubt you'd let me anywya because it would be considered calling others out. It boils down to a few people saying "we won, we have won two in a row, your stats dont matter because we won this game, flacco led us to 16 points!" It's irrational and frankly weird and a bit shortsighted but i suppose what it really is, is orange tinted glasses, which i get. I think the discussions in here have actually been surprisingly civil, which is great. I'm all for what the other side has to offer as to why flacco is good enough for this team. In my opinion, he may have one time been a pretty decent QB but those days are behind him and he's on a heavy slide.

[Lumiere]

Yes rastic no one is saying he's great you're right but they ARE saying he is good enough, which he is not. He's just not, how can it be grey when he ranks at the bottom half of the league? How can it be grey when our offense is one of the worst in the NFL? How can it be grey when he hasn't even outperformed the journeymen we have trotted out the last few years? You know what I mean? It's not getting down on others, its just saying our QB play is not average.

Someone said there is no other option and he's the starter, yes correct, but why does that mean people need to blindly say that he's good enough? Why does that mean he can't be criticized? Why does that mean we can't want better? You're right that there is no current solution, that has already been discussed, but there needs to be one at some point in the future because this cannot keep going as it is. Lock probably needs to start at some point and start gaining experience and/or giving us a look at the future.

I think you may have missed reading between the lines of Rastic's post. It's not JUST the QB, single-handedly calling the offense, single-handedly making every single play, with no assistance from anyone else.

Football Outsiders ranks Denver's pass protection at 21st in the league (at least prior to yesterday). Obviously, it's difficult "grading" offensive lines without knowing the protection assignments for each player on every play...which is probably just guessed or assumed by the one doing the grading. But, at any rate, according to their DVOA metric, we're basically bottom third in the league at pass protection (they do rank our O-line 5th in run blocking).

Flacco is not mobile...at all. His feet are basically cinder blocks. Without adequate pass protection, this dude will likely struggle. Also, as Rastic states, literally no one is claiming that Flacco is who we want quarterbacking this team. He's nothing more than a bridge to buy Lock development time...nothing more.

If our pass protection could go from bottom third in the league to upper third in the league, I'll wager you dollars to donuts you see Flacco's metrics improve, and our offense becomes noticeably better. But at any rate - he's nothing more than a temporary piece. Also, for the record - with decent pass protection (and better support all around), I would consider him an average to moderately below average quarterback.

I really don't understand the degree of squabbling on this one. Flacco is temporary - Lock is the future of this team. On a scale from 1 to 10, if Flacco is either a 5 or a 3, why argue until people are red in the face? I just hope our pass protection improves, our run game is dominant, and our defense is suffocating. I would also expect Flacco's numbers to proportionally improve...also coinciding with our OC gaining experience.

But in the end - the answer is Lock. I'm sure most of those arguing can agree on at least that.

[Amy-Selic]

Why are people thinking that its about style now? No one said this, its not about style and winning with star wars numbers. Its about winning in the most REALISTIC and CONSISTENT ways that a football team can, which is defense and offense complimenting one another. Without decent to good QB play in today's NFL that puts your chances far lower than a team that has that. We want that if we want to be perennial contenders again.

[Amy-Selic]

I think you may have missed reading between the lines of Rastic's post. It's not JUST the QB, single-handedly calling the offense, single-handedly making every single play, with no assistance from anyone else.

Football Outsiders ranks Denver's pass protection at 21st in the league (at least prior to yesterday). Obviously, it's difficult "grading" offensive lines without knowing the protection assignments for each player on every play...which is probably just guessed or assumed by the one doing the grading. But, at any rate, according to their DVOA metric, we're basically bottom third in the league at pass protection (they do rank our O-line 5th in run blocking).

Flacco is not mobile...at all. His feet are basically cinder blocks. Without adequate pass protection, this dude will likely struggle. Also, as Rastic states, literally no one is claiming that Flacco is who we want quarterbacking this team. He's nothing more than a bridge to buy Lock development time...nothing more.

If our pass protection could go from bottom third in the league to upper third in the league, I'll wager you dollars to donuts you see Flacco's metrics improve, and our offense becomes noticeably better. But at any rate - he's nothing more than a temporary piece. Also, for the record - with decent pass protection (and better support all around), I would consider him an average to moderately below average quarterback.

I really don't understand the degree of squabbling on this one. Flacco is temporary - Lock is the future of this team. On a scale from 1 to 10, if Flacco is either a 5 or a 3, why argue until people are red in the face? I just hope our pass protection improves, our run game is dominant, and our defense is suffocating. I would also expect Flacco's numbers to proportionally improve...also coinciding with our OC gaining experience.

But in the end - the answer is Lock. I'm sure most of those arguing can agree on at least that.

The debate comes from people actually claiming that flacco is performing well enough, there are people claiming his performance against the titans was solid. There are people in this very thread claiming that.

Anyway im tapping out, ive posted way too much in this topic so others can continue

[mozzerpete]

The pass protection is average. The running game is above average. An average QB would probably be getting average or better results with this offense. If a QB needs a great OL to be passable, he’s just bad. That’s the truth.

Which average QB would get average or better results with this offense?

What are the metrics you're using for
"above average, average, and below-average"?

I'm trying to understand your POV.

[Fantaztic7]

Thank you for that stat on the Defenses . I was trying to point that out earlier but didnt have the numbers in front of me . It's just a dumb argument on what's average and what isnt lol. Theres worse QBs to have come through the league and Better ones as well. Heck I dont care if Flacco only averages 1.5 tds a game if our running avg 2 . I dont care about flashy fantasy football stats . What I care about are wins . Sometimes they're ugly but you get no points for fashion. Heck if we were to win the 2 games we should have people would still be on here complaining about how terrible Flacco is. People like to complain just to do it.

Same here. I had The Herd on today as I have this week off - heading to Denver tomorrow for the game. I don’t watch the sports shows because I’m usually out working. Colin said the Broncos-Titans game was boring. Sure it was on offense, but the defense was amazing. Interceptions, sacks, pressures and getting after another team was entertaining IMO. I think the frustrating aspect of the offense is thinking it will click consistently, only to see it struggle like yesterday. Maybe we’ll see it get better as the season goes along but that’s what most have though over the last few seasons. The Chiefs defense is suspect at best. If we pound the ball and wear them down it should open some things up. The Chiefs are beatable, although it will be tough.

[BeelzeBob]

In six games the Broncos offense went up against four top 10 defenses in points allowed per game:

#3 Bears - 13.8
#5 Titans - 15.3
#8 Packers - 18.6
#10 Chargers - 19.6

They also played the Jaguars at #13 with 21.8 allowed per game.

Broncos scored:

14 vs Bears
16 vs Titans
16 vs Packers
20 vs Chargers
24 vs Jaguars

In three of four games against top 10 scoring defenses the Broncos offense scored more than the average. The Jags have a good defense and we scored above the average allowed.

By the numbers, strictly speaking the offense is above average relative to the defenses they’ve played. Carry on.....

Well then they should have no problem against the Chiefs’ defense right?

[JW7]

In six games the Broncos offense went up against four top 10 defenses in points allowed per game:

#3 Bears - 13.8
#5 Titans - 15.3
#8 Packers - 18.6
#10 Chargers - 19.6

They also played the Jaguars at #13 with 21.8 allowed per game.

Broncos scored:

14 vs Bears
16 vs Titans
16 vs Packers
20 vs Chargers
24 vs Jaguars

In three of four games against top 10 scoring defenses the Broncos offense scored more than the average. The Jags have a good defense and we scored above the average allowed.

By the numbers, strictly speaking the offense is above average relative to the defenses they’ve played. Carry on.....

It's almost like stats need context. Thank you for posting this.

[Papa-pwn]

Which average QB would get average or better results with this offense?

Jimmy G, Minshew, Carr, Brissett, Wentz, Rivers, and possibly even some below average QBs like Keenum, Mariota, and Dalton.

What are the metrics you're using for
"above average, average, and below-average"?

There are many. Passer rating, TD%, INT %, TD:INT ratio, completion % on non-checkdowns(read: > 5 yards), adjustedYPA, offensive scoring, yards per game, wins. All of which see Flacco in the bottom 10 compared to his peers this year. Just like his 2015-2018 seasons.

[Fantaztic7]

It's almost like stats need context. Thank you for posting this.

Thanks. The 2015 Broncos defense allowed 18.5 per game and we were tough to beat. 2019 defense only allowing 17.6 per game - yesterday’s shutout helped the average. If the offense can improve, even marginally we might have a better season than we thought a couple of weeks ago. We’ll see.