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  • Originally posted by GMTD View Post
    You shouldn't set your sights too low

    In fairness, though, Flacco is a significant upgrade over Keenum. He's been in the league 11 years and only has two losing seasons.

    2008: 11-5
    2009: 9-7
    2010: 12-4
    2011: 12-4
    2012: 10-6
    2013: 8-8
    2014: 10-6
    2015: 3-7
    2016: 8-8
    2017: 9-7
    2018: 4-5

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...F/FlacJo00.htm

    He also has a strong postseason record (10-5) with 7 road wins including in Denver and in New England.

    The only question mark is his recent injury history, but as others have said, if the coaches are not convinced by what they see of Flacco, we can cut him.

    Even in 2017 I do not believe that 9-7 would have made us a playoff team. So form the graphic above what I am seeing is a QB who is on a clear decline and is not capable of elevating his team. There is a reason why Flacco had a 1st round QB selected in last years draft and was on the trade block this off-season. He has not had what would be deemed a "GOOD" season since 2014.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
      Leary can't go anywhere. He has injury guarantees. He ended the season injured and will not be healthy by the deadline per multiple local beat writers on twitter so we're stuck with his contract this year due to injury.
      Very well could be but I haven’t heard anything about that. I just keep hearing he is a candidate to be cut.

      Comment


      • If we use the “6 degrees of separation” method, we can connect him to the Colts. And by that connection, it will equate to a SB!!!!

        Starting with:
        Elway——Baltimore Colts traded to us——-multiple SB appearances and 2 wins as a QB and 1 as VP/GM.

        Manning——-Indy Colt——-released, signed by Elway (who was drafted by Baltimore Colts)——-2 SB appearances, 1 SB win

        Flacco——-Baltimore Raven——Colts left Baltimore in middle of night, this leaving Baltimore void of a team. Browns move to Baltimore and fill void created by what was the Baltimore, now Indy Colts———traded for by Elway———-now a Bronco!

        See, SB’s are on the menu!!
        #swapping

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
          Very well could be but I haven’t heard anything about that. I just keep hearing he is a candidate to be cut.
          He could have been if he was going to be healthy in time. It's already apparent he won't so it just isn't an option at this point.
          sigpic

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          • One thing that changes immediately with Flacco over Keenum - no more floaters. There will be picks, but they'll have a lot more zip (he does throw a nice ball)

            Joe does like a 50/50 ball which should get Sutton some nice highlights and he has a much better back shoulder throw.

            JF vs. KC Red Zone stats for 2017

            Inside 20 Inside 10
            Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int
            Case Keenum 36 69 52.17 242 11 4 17 35 48.57 70 8 2
            Joe Flacco 25 47 53.19 155 10 1 11 23 47.83 50 6 1
            Can't get much out of those numbers except maybe that Flacco was slightly better with ball protection and TD to INT ratio. Both teams' Red Zone efficiency was about the same for 2017 with the Keenum's Broncos slightly better but Flacco was injured and missed a number of games and Jackson became the starter from that point forward.

            If you only look at the numbers up to and including November 4 when Flacco was injured, their RZ efficiency was 8th ranked in the league (here). In that same period of time Denver was ranked 21.

            This is no guarantee of success or failure but does seem to suggest Flacco being more decisive, capable, and safe when it counts when compared to Keenum. Of course coaching, scheme, and surrounding talent are factors.
            Last edited by Rastic; 02-14-2019, 07:16 AM.

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            • Originally posted by Rastic View Post
              One thing that changes immediately with Flacco over Keenum - no more floaters. There will be picks, but they'll have a lot more zip (he does throw a nice ball)

              Joe does like a 50/50 ball which should get Sutton some nice highlights and he has a much better back shoulder throw.

              JF vs. KC Red Zone stats for 2017

              Inside 20 Inside 10
              Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int
              Case Keenum 36 69 52.17 242 11 4 17 35 48.57 70 8 2
              Joe Flacco 25 47 53.19 155 10 1 11 23 47.83 50 6 1
              Can't get much out of those numbers except maybe that Flacco was slightly better with ball protection and TD to INT ratio. Both teams' Red Zone efficiency was about the same for 2017 with the Keenum's Broncos slightly better but Flacco was injured and missed a number of games and Jackson became the starter from that point forward.

              If you only look at the numbers up to and including November 4 when Flacco was injured, their RZ efficiency was 8th ranked in the league (here). In that same period of time Denver was ranked 21.

              This is no guarantee of success or failure but does seem to suggest Flacco being more decisive, capable, and safe when it counts when compared to Keenum. Of course coaching, scheme, and surrounding talent are factors.
              Your last paragraph there was key. Flacco has a system in place which was catered to him and his skill-sets. He also had a very good O-line. Case had an OC who was CLEARLY attempting for force a system onto Case which was not catered to what Case was truly good at. There is a large part of me which says a good QB should be able to adapt and eventually get "it". Then there is another part of me which says if a system is put in place which doesn't fit then you're doomed form the get go. We had nearly zero shallow crossers, few to no short passes to RBs and on top of all of that our OL were killing us with holding penalties.

              So I think the real question should be - if our OC HADN'T tried to force a system and instead adapted a style of play to Case would we have done better as a team? - I think we would have. In addition to that I think Case provides a little extra running to the QB position which Flacco does not. Those quick QB runs can really hurt an opposing defense.

              SO yes I agree Flacco throws a nice deep pass. He also had a better TD-INT ratio last season BUT I do not see him as an upgrade. The 4 - Million + a 4th round pick is NOT worth it. I Think we could have easily got a decent depth player or packaged the 4th rounder with other picks and moved back up in the draft and grabbed a better player for our team. Long-term and no band-aids as Vangio stated.

              IMO - Flacco is the the very definition of a band aid.

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              • Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
                You do know Case is owed $21 mill this year if he played. We are going to be playing Flacco $18 mill with 0 guaranteed. If traded or released we would be eating Case base Salary of $7 according to Ian Rapaport. So we will being paying for $25 mill in QBs between the two. Or only $4 more million that what we would have given Case if he stay for the next season. The real question is Flacco that big of an upgrade to pay $4 mill more and a 4th rounder? Yes, he is.
                Case will be cut - no team is going to trade for him. If he’s cut, the dead cap is $10M. Unless I’m missing something, there’s no way around that. The Broncos and Flacco May renegotiate to lower his salary, but if they do, it will come at the cost of incurring dead cap if he’s cut. I think the Broncos will want to retain the flexibility to cut him without penalty and pay his salary instead of renegotiating. That means we’re paying $28M for Flacco this year unless some team is crazy enough to trade for Case.

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                • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

                  SO yes I agree Flacco throws a nice deep pass. He also had a better TD-INT ratio last season BUT I do not see him as an upgrade. The 4 - Million + a 4th round pick is NOT worth it. I Think we could have easily got a decent depth player or packaged the 4th rounder with other picks and moved back up in the draft and grabbed a better player for our team. Long-term and no band-aids as Vangio stated.

                  IMO - Flacco is the the very definition of a band aid.
                  Bandaid for sure.
                  4 Mill + a 4th rounder for a guy we know can win in the playoffs. A guy who has beaten Brady in the playoffs. A guy who makes it a ridiculous close game in Foxboro and has won a Super Bowl. Granted, he needs help around him. Meaning we will need to build that Defense up. Which I fully expect Denver to go grab S Amos and CB Callahan( both Vic’s guys). Possibly Mosley but doubt we have the money because we need OL help in FA as well. I expect Denver to sign RT James and possible G Foster. In the draft I fully expect Denver to get 1 of 3 guys depending on FA. LB White, CB Greedy/ Baker, or a DL guy like Oliver.

                  Great D with the combination of heavy run but need a QB that forces Defenses to have to cover every inch of the field because of Flacco’s strong arm. Less than a month ago most broncos fans are saying “ anyone but Keenum”. Well we got someone else and it financially makes sense and has a good resume.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dgobronco View Post
                    Case will be cut - no team is going to trade for him. If he’s cut, the dead cap is $10M. Unless I’m missing something, there’s no way around that. The Broncos and Flacco May renegotiate to lower his salary, but if they do, it will come at the cost of incurring dead cap if he’s cut. I think the Broncos will want to retain the flexibility to cut him without penalty and pay his salary instead of renegotiating. That means we’re paying $28M for Flacco this year unless some team is crazy enough to trade for Case.
                    To be honest, I’m not sure how the number $7 came up for Case for what we would owe him. I know that’s what his base salary is. But for some reason that is the number all the guys on 104.3 the fan say, Troy, and the rest of Twitter keeps throwing out there. However, let’s say it is $28. The goes down to like $18-20 the following year. And again there is no guarantee in hisncontract with us rn. We could pull a Mark Sanchez and cut him before the season starts. Not going to happen but we could.

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                    • Was hoping this will be the case. Now unload Simmons, Roby, Barrett, and a 4th/5th rounder. Give Flacco his just due, he's a savy veteran, still has a couple/few years, is a cold weather/natural turf (though Denver is a Mile High, dry/rock hard - soften the field a little except when Brady, Big Ben, Rivers are in town so they can land on the hard ground), compliments a run game (not the read/option nor scramble - NE DON'T USE 'EM - so children! you that like the high school/college type 'O' forget it) though Flacco is more adept at throwing on the move than Keenum.

                      I'm all for it, and now it's time for all that like the carnival type football (NE DOESN'T DO IT!) to realize this is professional football where & when duty, discipline, order, true power, organization - U name it are the prime factors to a SB Championship. Let's get right, get the OL's heads out their ___s, so they can keep people off Flacco's ___, so he can do what he does while utilizing the run game timely. Mostly, the OL needs to be conditioned most in not being lame brains & poliwags having false starts, holding, hands to the face, slow afoot, blown plays.

                      That said, bolster the 'D' thru the draft/FA getting a bigger SS &/or a smarter FS, a CB, inside LBs w/ some size & speed, monsters @ DL inside, but most of all those that put aside glory seeking and yearn to PLAY NFL Football not carnival music.

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                      • Case would be due 7 million . If hes cut it's about 99.9% he gets picked up as a backup. So the league minimum he gets 5 and that comes off of what the Broncos owe . So they would essentially go from owing him 7 to 3 or 2 million

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MDN1959 View Post
                          Was hoping this will be the case. Now unload Simmons, Roby, Barrett, and a 4th/5th rounder. Give Flacco his just due, he's a savy veteran, still has a couple/few years, is a cold weather/natural turf (though Denver is a Mile High, dry/rock hard - soften the field a little except when Brady, Big Ben, Rivers are in town so they can land on the hard ground), compliments a run game (not the read/option nor scramble - NE DON'T USE 'EM - so children! you that like the high school/college type 'O' forget it) though Flacco is more adept at throwing on the move than Keenum.

                          I'm all for it, and now it's time for all that like the carnival type football (NE DOESN'T DO IT!) to realize this is professional football where & when duty, discipline, order, true power, organization - U name it are the prime factors to a SB Championship. Let's get right, get the OL's heads out their ___s, so they can keep people off Flacco's ___, so he can do what he does while utilizing the run game timely. Mostly, the OL needs to be conditioned most in not being lame brains & poliwags having false starts, holding, hands to the face, slow afoot, blown plays.

                          That said, bolster the 'D' thru the draft/FA getting a bigger SS &/or a smarter FS, a CB, inside LBs w/ some size & speed, monsters @ DL inside, but most of all those that put aside glory seeking and yearn to PLAY NFL Football not carnival music.
                          Add Wolfe, Sanders and Stewart to that cut list. Keep Simmons. Trade for AB. I think a 3rd rounder might do it. Add Mosley and Amos/Collins in FA. Draft a CB with the first rounder, interior D-line or O-line with the second pick. TE in 3rd/4th. Defense would be stacked. Offense with a lot of potential centering around Lindsey, AB and Sutton. Might be too much to ask for but it sure would be nice.

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                          • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
                            Case would be due 7 million . If hes cut it's about 99.9% he gets picked up as a backup. So the league minimum he gets 5 and that comes off of what the Broncos owe . So they would essentially go from owing him 7 to 3 or 2 million
                            If this is true then that’s freaking awesome

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                            • Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
                              If this is true then that’s freaking awesome
                              I'm not 100% sure , but this is what I have read and think I understand

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
                                I'm not 100% sure , but this is what I have read and think I understand
                                Hopefully Case doesn’t get smart and just offer to sign for the vet minimum where ever he goes.

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