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  • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    Playoff stats:
    Joe Flacco
    10 Playoff wins. One Super Bowl Win.
    (10th All-time)
    /////////////////
    Case Keenum
    1 playoff win.
    Yeah, but it’s not 2012 anymore. Eli has had a great career to. I don’t think it means he’s going to be good in 2019.

    Comment


    • Stats dont mean everything imo. Some stats are garbage time stats . Some ints are not even on QBs like a pass that hits a wr in the hands and bounces to a defensive player. There is no way anyone can sit here and post that Keenum and Flacco are on the same level . Anyone who says that are just so ticked at the Broncos getting him instead of who they want . So your being stubborn and closed minded . It's not my favorite pick up by no means but until Flacco fails I'm not gonna torch him or Elway . What about Ellis , hes in charge also . Keenum has been a backup his whole career. To say hes as good as Flacco shows you just dont know or your trying to kid yourself

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      • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
        I made this point in the other QB thread, I'll make it here as well.

        Last season, when Keenum's attempt number went over a specific number passes, we lost, period. Last year our running game went through periods of being ineffective or under utilized. A big part of this was that nobody in the world respects Keenum's deep arm. He's a noodle armed weakling.

        Even if Flacco puts up similar numbers to Keenum, he can lob the ball down field with velocity and make deep throws. Keenum can't. This forces defenses to be honest and will help the run game by limiting the stacked boxes they'll see.

        Look at the end of last season the way our run game really tapered off... A lot of that was the fact that Keenum SUCKS trying to throw over 15ish yards.

        Flacco's not a great option at QB, but he is an upgrade in our offense because he will have the ability to stretch the field from time to time to keep defenses honest and allow Lindsay, Freeman and Booker to do their jobs.

        We don't need Flacco to be a world beater, we need our running game and defense to be strong. Flacco does help the running game because of his arm.
        We’ll see. I think a huge amount depends on the ability of improving O-line play. Need that O-line to open up holes for the running game and pass-pro for those long balls to be effective. There were times last year where the run game wasn’t effective because of that stacked box...Does Flacco still get the respect he once did with that long ball? I’m not so sure. He averaged less than 200 yards/game in 2017. You’ll notice that Keenum had 750 more yards...despite being awful with the long ball.

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        • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
          Stats dont mean everything imo. Some stats are garbage time stats . Some ints are not even on QBs like a pass that hits a wr in the hands and bounces to a defensive player. There is no way anyone can sit here and post that Keenum and Flacco are on the same level . Anyone who says that are just so ticked at the Broncos getting him instead of who they want . So your being stubborn and closed minded . It's not my favorite pick up by no means but until Flacco fails I'm not gonna torch him or Elway . What about Ellis , hes in charge also . Keenum has been a backup his whole career. To say hes as good as Flacco shows you just dont know or your trying to kid yourself
          I could say if you’re ignoring the stats, you’re kidding yourself. Flacco is probably marginally better than Keenum. Not much though.

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          • Originally posted by Oust_Elway View Post
            I could say if you’re ignoring the stats, you’re kidding yourself. Flacco is probably marginally better than Keenum. Not much though.
            I have to disagree . Just watch the 2 and its obvious Flacco is better .

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
              I made this point in the other QB thread, I'll make it here as well.

              Last season, when Keenum's attempt number went over a specific number passes, we lost, period. Last year our running game went through periods of being ineffective or under utilized. A big part of this was that nobody in the world respects Keenum's deep arm. He's a noodle armed weakling.

              Even if Flacco puts up similar numbers to Keenum, he can lob the ball down field with velocity and make deep throws. Keenum can't. This forces defenses to be honest and will help the run game by limiting the stacked boxes they'll see.

              Look at the end of last season the way our run game really tapered off... A lot of that was the fact that Keenum SUCKS trying to throw over 15ish yards.

              Flacco's not a great option at QB, but he is an upgrade in our offense because he will have the ability to stretch the field from time to time to keep defenses honest and allow Lindsay, Freeman and Booker to do their jobs.

              We don't need Flacco to be a world beater, we need our running game and defense to be strong. Flacco does help the running game because of his arm.
              Flacco hasn't been a good, or even average, deep ball guy in a while. There's a reason he's been among the worst in the league in YPA for several years straight now. You can see it in games, his constant injuries to his shoulder/back/hip/knees has taken a lot away from him.
              Last edited by Papa-pwn; 02-18-2019, 07:30 AM.

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              • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
                I have to disagree . Just watch the 2 and its obvious Flacco is better .
                I've watched 25+ games of both and it is obvious they are bottom among the worst starting QBs in the league the last few years. There were moments when one looked slightly better than the other, but on the whole they both looked below average pretty consistently.

                Flacco is not a significant upgrade, certainly not a 28.5m and a high 4th round pick level upgrade.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Oust_Elway View Post
                  Good point on the O-line. Flacco is very immobile. Munchack will have his work cut out for him, especially now that it looks like Paradis is walking. I don’t think we have stability at any of the 5 positions now. Bolles still holding/tackling guys all the time, Leary is probably gone, Veldheer will maybe be OK. I don’t know. You can’t look at any spot on the line and say, “That spot is taken care of.”
                  The Broncos O-line ended the season with the depth chart: LT Garett Bolles/Elijah Wilkinson, LG Billy Turner/Nico Falah, C Connor McGovern/Sam Jones, RG Elijah Wilkinson/Sam Jones and RT Jared Veldheer/Billy Turner. Injured Reserve: G Ronald Leary, C Matt Paradis and G Max Garcia.

                  Injuries resulted in shuffling lineman several times. All things considered the line adapted fairly well. Turner, Wilkinson and McGovern gained valuable experience. Drafting one to two talented prospects would go a long way toward strengthening the line. I think Flacco can have a good season if Elway invests in the line.
                  Last edited by Fantaztic7; 02-18-2019, 07:40 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                    I've watched 25+ games of both and it is obvious they are bottom among the worst starting QBs in the league the last few years. There were moments when one looked slightly better than the other, but on the whole they both looked below average pretty consistently.

                    Flacco is not a significant upgrade, certainly not a 28.5m and a high 4th round pick level upgrade.
                    Good thing we aren't paying him 28.5m....

                    He's making 18m towards our cap after the Ravens eat their portion and it's not a "high" 4th, it's the 4th we got for DT from the Texans. so we basically traded DT for Flacco...

                    Even if it was a high fourth, name one 4th round draft pick that Denver's had since 2012 that's had an impact? Max Garcia and Booker are the only two still on our roster.
                    Last edited by Freyaka; 02-18-2019, 08:24 AM.
                    sigpic

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                    • One thing I noticed and its real obvious when watching CK and JF games is the difference in DB reaction time to passes. With JF it is obvious his passes have more velocity. Give JF a new head coach, running game and O-line and I believe Elway has us headed for another SB.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                        Good thing we aren't paying him 28.5m....

                        He's making 18m towards our cap after the Ravens eat their portion and it's not a "high" 4th, it's the 4th we got for DT from the Texans. so we basically traded DT for Flacco...

                        Even if it was a high fourth, name one 4th round draft pick that Denver's had since 2012 that's had an impact? Max Garcia and Booker are the only two still on our roster.
                        $28.5 million for the quarterback position not counting depth: Flacco’s 2019 salary and Keenum’s $10 dead cap (less if Keenum signs with another team). The 4th round pick wasn’t a lot however could have been used in a package to trade up.

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                        • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                          Good thing we aren't paying him 28.5m....

                          He's making 18m towards our cap after the Ravens eat their portion and it's not a "high" 4th, it's the 4th we got for DT from the Texans. so we basically traded DT for Flacco...

                          Even if it was a high fourth, name one 4th round draft pick that Denver's had since 2012 that's had an impact? Max Garcia and Booker are the only two still on our roster.
                          Exactly right. It's hard not to laugh at some opinions when they are unaware of the actual facts regarding Flacco. I haven't watched 25+ games of Flacco, and I'd bet a months salary that nobody on this Board has. I have, however, watched the Baltimore/New Orleans loss, and the Baltimore win over Denver, both from last season. And Flacco is clearly the superior QB compared to Keenum by a wide margin, even to the most casual observer. He looks healthy, he looks relatively mobile,, he looks athletic for his age, and he looks like there is still tread on the tires. But, let's say he falls on his face, and can no longer perform when we get to pre-season. Then we cut him with NO CAP HIT.

                          I shake my head that some on this board have become so Invested in seeing Flacco fail Similar to Chubb, who after his spectacular rookie season, still sees some of his critics hanging on to a lost cause. I sure as heck don't want Missouri's Lock on this team. And I have argued against Drafting him. But, if we do Draft him then he will be a member of this Team, no matter how I may feel, and I will support him. Imagine how good he would have to be to beat out Flacco! It would be great for the fans and great for the Franchise.

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                          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                            $28.5 million for the quarterback position not counting depth: Flacco’s 2019 salary and Keenum’s $10 dead cap (less if Keenum signs with another team). The 4th round pick wasn’t a lot however could have been used in a package to trade up.
                            I don't think Elway liked the price of moving up, which was why he spent the fourth for a QB instead of giving up a lot more to get a QB you don't want to draft 5th.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jflee66 View Post
                              One thing I noticed and its real obvious when watching CK and JF games is the difference in DB reaction time to passes. With JF it is obvious his passes have more velocity. Give JF a new head coach, running game and O-line and I believe Elway has us headed for another SB.
                              Another thing. Flacco might occasionally throw in to coverage, but I don't see him force feeding the same receiver every week like Keenum does. Brown was getting a lot of targets, but so was Snead. At this point, it's become pretty clear that priority one when facing Keenum is taking away the slot. I don't have stats to support the idea of Flacco spreading the ball around more. I'm going on what I've seen watching him play. If anyone has those numbers readily available, feel free.

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                              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                                $28.5 million for the quarterback position not counting depth: Flacco’s 2019 salary and Keenum’s $10 dead cap (less if Keenum signs with another team). The 4th round pick wasn’t a lot however could have been used in a package to trade up.
                                Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Keenums $10 million Cap hit assumes that Keenum is cut, and nobody else signs him. If we trade Keenum, he will be a $3 million dollar hit. If we cut Keenum and he signs a Vet minimum of $4 million, then the Cap Hit is $6 million. And yet people continue to use the $10 million dollar number to bolster their faulty argument. I believe the truth is that more will be revealed over time. You can bet that Elway and the FO are much better aware of the challenges we face in moving Keenum than anyone on this Board. So, I'm going to wait and see what happens instead of crying over something that nobody on this Board can control.

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