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  • Originally posted by SMR81 View Post
    Any GM could have done what Elway did with Manning at QB. It’s what he’s done after Manning that’s really defined him as a GM, which is a complete failure with no HOF QB to clean up his mess.
    Utter tripe and revisionist history. Elway not only surrounded Manning with good offensive talent, he then built one of the greatest defenses of all time to drag Manning across the finish line to a SB victory. It's asinine to say any GM could have done that. Manning went to two SBs in four years with Denver. In Indy it took him 13 years to do the same thing despite having Bill Polian, multiple winner of executive of the year, as his GM. He also had HOF head coach Tony Dungy with him for many years. Your refusal to give Elway even an ounce of credit is flat out ridiculous.

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    • Originally posted by gDavid2 View Post
      Ravens fan here,
      I just wanted to say that Joe can be good under the right circumstances. He needs time in the pocket and a reliable pass-catching TE. The major issue the Ravens had was that they never built an offense around him since the Superbowl. His best wide receiver in the last 5 years was Steve Smith who was in his mid 30's. I can't even count how many times the recievers let Joe down by dropping perfect thrown balls. Joe wasn't perfect by any means, but the stats don't show the entire story. I will say that Joe will give you guys his all. When he tore his ACL, he still was on the field for a few plays. He will play through injuries if he can and take hard hits to deliver a throw. He will make some head scratching throws, but he is clutch under 2 mins. He is at his best during a high tempo offense. If you anyone has questions about him, I have watched all of his games as a fan.

      Good luck to your season. I'll be rooting for you guys because of Joe
      Welcome! I hope Joe does well for us.
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      • Originally posted by Peanut View Post
        Welcome! I hope Joe does well for us.
        I can't wait until he does, and you post a picture of yourself in your #5 Jersey!!!!

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        • Originally posted by Peanut View Post
          Welcome! I hope Joe does well for us.
          I think we all hope he does well.
          [URL=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/Saddletramp69/media/asdf.jpg.html][/URL
          Adopted player Lindsey

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          • Originally posted by SMR81 View Post
            Any GM could have done what Elway did with Manning at QB. It’s what he’s done after Manning that’s really defined him as a GM, which is a complete failure with no HOF QB to clean up his mess.
            I disagree. That completely ignores the adjustments Elway made to the team and to the coaching staff in the years after signing PM.... but this topic is about Flacco so not going to elaborate on points that have been made many times in other threads. Elway is not perfect by any measure but he still deserves credit for what was done.
            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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            • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
              I can't wait until he does, and you post a picture of yourself in your #5 Jersey!!!!



              As long as I don't have to wear a "Wacko for Flacco" shirt.

              Part of me is a little surprised at the respect he is getting from Raven fans.
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              • I hope he does well, and stays healthy. It would be nice to have a QB with real NFL experience leading our offense.

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                • Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                  It wasn't a waste of my time, and I enjoy reading your posts, just the information you provided this time here wasn't related to what I actually had said. I also wasn't trying to argue for the record, you just said "IIRC", and I just highlighted it actually happened differently to what you stated, that is all. I also felt it was an attempt to talk down to me at the same time which is fine, but it was done so in a way with information which was completely irrelevant to what I actually said, that's all.

                  I know you broke down the offensive line here and the changes which constantly occurred, and you have looked up the snap counts for offensive lineman in certain games, but for future reference, the starting lineup against the Rams was actually Bolles, Leary, Paradis. Garcia, Turner, as seen in the picture from the first play below, with Paradis healthy.



                  Also, here is the article in which I was referencing, where Vance Joseph said that "changes are coming", when his coaching staff decided to bench Connor McGovern for Max Garcia. If you remember correctly that was the original point I stated that was confusing, which you said you disagreed with. Believe it or not, some other people do watch the games closely as well, and from time to time do know what they are saying in relation to the team, thanks.

                  https://sports.yahoo.com/vance-josep...143350375.html
                  IMO the OL problems are easy to describe in 2018

                  1. Lack of proper talent in team pass protection (not just OL imo but the TEs and RB struggled in pass protection)
                  2. Lack of coaching ability to properly utilize what the team is good at....run blocking.

                  The team pass protection has been bad for years. The only reason we did not end up in the league leaders for sacks allowed three years in a row is because we had a mobile Qb. If our 2018 qb was a statue pocket passer (like Flacco) I have no doubt it would have been 3 years in a row top 10 in sacks allowed (3rd and 9th previous years)

                  I said after the 2017 season we were min 2 years away from fixing the team pass protection and I am not sure if we did enough in the year since to reduce that time any. The new coaching changes will help but we need talent on the field. We need guys who can win one on one match ups.

                  There is play design involved but ultimately football is about one guy making a play on another guy and the coaches ability to put this together in a 11 vs 11 game. When the 5-8 guys involved in team pass protection (OL+TE+RB) are consistently losing their one on one match ups than the passing game will fail miserably.

                  The really tough thing about team pass protection is only 1 or 2 guys on each play need to lose their match up to make the play fail. All 5 OL can make excellent blocks but if the RB fails to pick up the blitz it can get ugly fast.
                  Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                  • Originally posted by skeeter01
                    The answer is.....Lock @ 10
                    Actually, I think the "answer" is that we are signing Joe Flacco to be our starting QB for the foreseeable future. And although anything can happen in the NFL, spending a #1 on another high-round "crap shoot" who will clearly be riding the pine for the "foreseeable" future may not be in the cards.

                    But of course Drafting a QB or an ILB with #10 would be the popular, "sexy" choice for the "fans".

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                    • Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
                      Actually, I think the "answer" is that we are signing Joe Flacco to be our starting QB for the foreseeable future. And although anything can happen in the NFL, spending a #1 on another high-round "crap shoot" who will clearly be riding the pine for the "foreseeable" future may not be in the cards.

                      But of course Drafting a QB or an ILB with #10 would be the popular, "sexy" choice for the "fans".
                      Lock will ride the pine as you say, just like Mahomes rode the pine. I didn't take you for the immediate gratification type. If you were ya should have been calling for Foles. I'm perfectly fine with Flacco at the helm. Heck, Rogers rode the pine for what three years ? Lock has what it takes, minus some footwork and diagnosing....ride the pine, he'll be just fine.

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                      • Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
                        Lock will ride the pine as you say, just like Mahomes rode the pine. I didn't take you for the immediate gratification type. If you were ya should have been calling for Foles. I'm perfectly fine with Flacco at the helm. Heck, Rogers rode the pine for what three years ? Lock has what it takes, minus some footwork and diagnosing....ride the pine, he'll be just fine.
                        Too bad he is nothing like mahomes
                        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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                        • Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
                          Lock will ride the pine as you say, just like Mahomes rode the pine. I didn't take you for the immediate gratification type. If you were ya should have been calling for Foles. I'm perfectly fine with Flacco at the helm. Heck, Rogers rode the pine for what three years ? Lock has what it takes, minus some footwork and diagnosing....ride the pine, he'll be just fine.
                          Interesting that you mention that, because at the end of the season, I called for Denver to sign either Flacco or Foles, with my preference being Foles. And when I talk about a Denver Quarterback "riding the pine", I'm talking more in terms of our failed QBs in Brock Osweiler, and to a much lesser extent, Paxton Lynch (only because Elway evidently learned from giving Brock too much time, thus cutting Lynch after 2 years). And as this Franchise has learned from Lynch and Osweiler, riding the pine isn't always a good thing. In fact, in more cases than not, it's a bad thing unless the QB on the bench is backing up a "Favre" or a "Manning".

                          This is a bad year for QBs. And taking Lock at #10 is fine with me of that's what Elway decides to do. But, if he doesn't pan out as 1st Round Pick, as Lynch didn't, then you are really setting back the Franchise. Now that we have Flacco, I don't think Elway "tosses the dice" on another "crapshoot".

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                          • We could probably restructure Flaccos deal
                            (With Guaranteed loot) and make some cap room.

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                            • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
                              We could probably restructure Flaccos deal
                              (With Guaranteed loot) and make some cap room.
                              I was thinking the same thing. Along with CHJ as well. Extend him and lower the cap.

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                              • Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
                                I was thinking the same thing. Along with CHJ as well. Extend him and lower the cap.
                                John Elway is a very intelligent businessman
                                (And a Great GM), I think he will figure it out.
                                That way we can still get a Safety and maybe a MLB?

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