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  • Nick Ferguson predicted the Broncos would go 12-4 in 2019. Is the Fangio-Flacco partnership worth 6 wins? Flacco is an average QB throughout his career. Can he all of a sudden become that great?

    I want to see what Lock can do. Word from the mini-camp is he made some mistakes. We'll see what happens come training camp.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
      It will be nice to have 5 preseason games, for both Lock and the rest of the young players. 48 days until the first preseason game!
      It can’t get here fast enough (although I don’t like to wish time away)!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sam_Z
        This is one statement that I can say I agree with you on, Lock is not sitting for 3 years...

        I don’t agree with your harsh criticism of Joe Flacco but there is no way Elway keeps Lock on the bench. It doesn’t matter if Flacco goes 12-4 and is league MVP, Elway is not paying him a butt load of money when he’s got Lock!
        Lynch was a first rounder and he sat for 3yrs behind average QBs. If were going to the PO's with JF, why wouldn't you keep him till he fizzles. 20 mil. isn't much now days for a PO QB. If JF takes us to the PO's and they decide to change to Lock, I would think a large sector of fans would be very disappointed. I know I would. Unless Lock starts to shine like Mahomes somewhere along the way.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jflee66 View Post
          Lynch was a first rounder and he sat for 3yrs behind average QBs. If were going to the PO's with JF, why wouldn't you keep him till he fizzles. 20 mil. isn't much now days for a PO QB. If JF takes us to the PO's and they decide to change to Lock, I would think a large sector of fans would be very disappointed. I know I would. Unless Lock starts to shine like Mahomes somewhere along the way.
          It really depends on the situation. If Flacco is being carried by the defense but still making the playoffs you have to look at a better long term replacement

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jflee66 View Post
            Lynch was a first rounder and he sat for 3yrs behind average QBs. If were going to the PO's with JF, why wouldn't you keep him till he fizzles. 20 mil. isn't much now days for a PO QB. If JF takes us to the PO's and they decide to change to Lock, I would think a large sector of fans would be very disappointed. I know I would. Unless Lock starts to shine like Mahomes somewhere along the way.
            This is similar to Jake Plummer being benched for Cutler. We were headed to the playoffs even though Jake a couple poor outings...inserted Cutler...and we fell out of contention.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
              Nick Ferguson predicted the Broncos would go 12-4 in 2019. Is the Fangio-Flacco partnership worth 6 wins? Flacco is an average QB throughout his career. Can he all of a sudden become that great?

              I want to see what Lock can do. Word from the mini-camp is he made some mistakes. We'll see what happens come training camp.
              I think the important relation for that success is Munchak-Team Pass protection.

              In addition our OC and what he does. IMO our offense in 2018 was much more talented than the results. What Scangarello does with the talent and experience he has this year will be very interesting.

              My crazy long range prediction machine based on what I have seen up until now says we will probably have an opportunity for a better record in 2019 than 2020. Chargers will be tough and well coached. I think KC takes step back in 2019 and then rebounds real strong in 2020. I think the Raiders are 1 or 2 years from cleaning house.

              Thing is we are right now probably the biggest question mark in the AFC West with imo a legit shot to be last or first in the division in 2019.
              Last edited by Hadez; 06-15-2019, 09:01 AM.
              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

              Comment


              • I saw a headline on CBS Sports that Said, Elway thinks that Flacco can lead the Broncos to the SUPER BOWL !!!!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                  It really depends on the situation. If Flacco is being carried by the defense but still making the playoffs you have to look at a better long term replacement
                  No sorry!

                  It is an absolute misunderstanding about football. The job of the QB is to do enough to win games. If you can play defense and run the ball you do that and then lets your QB be the hero at the end.

                  If what you have is a Jay Cutler/Kirk Cousins kind of player that is great against bad teams, and fall apart every time they meet good competition, then you have to look for why that is. Trent Dilfer is the best example of what happens when you don't actually realise that while the defense is dominant the QB is adding the extra juice. Getting rid of Dilfer gave Ravens problems until they got Joe Flacco

                  Comment


                  • The Flacco hype this year is so reminiscent of the Keemun hype last year. Some serious deja vu

                    Comment


                    • I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but Joe Flacco is an average at best QB. Below are his career AV numbers. AV is a metric developed by Pro Football Reference which assigns a value number to a player for a particular season. It's kind of like WAR in baseball, AV just tries to measure a player's value to their team. I went through each season Flacco has been in the NFL and got his rank among all QBs for each season. The AV numbers are in parentheses and the number after it is Flacco's AV rank that season out of all QBs (there are 32 starting QBs in the NFL each season).

                      2018 Joe Flacco (7) 26th
                      2017 Joe Flacco (9) 22nd
                      2016 Joe Flacco (9) 24th
                      2015 Joe Flacco (5) 26th
                      2014 Joe Flacco (14) 10th
                      2013 Joe Flacco (8) 22nd
                      2012 Joe Flacco (13) 11th
                      2011 Joe Flacco (12) 12th
                      2010 Joe Flacco (12) 10th
                      2009 Joe Flacco (13) 10th
                      2008 Joe Flacco (11) 15th

                      For a frame of reference, below are the Broncos QBs for each season from 2008-2018.

                      2018 Case Keenum (9) 20th
                      2017 Trevor Siemian (4) 33rd
                      2016 Trevor Siemian (9) 24th
                      2015 Peyton Manning (2) 37th
                      2014 Peyton Manning (16) 3rd
                      2013 Peyton Manning (19) 1st
                      2012 Peyton Manning (15) 7th
                      2011 Tim Tebow (8) 20th
                      2010 Kyle Orton (11) 16th
                      2009 Kyle Orton (11) 14th
                      2008 Jay Cutler (15) 6th

                      What does all this mean? Well, in 2018 Keenum put up a better AV score than Flacco. With Flacco we should be expecting the same level of QB play we have had the past few years with Keenum and Siemian (except for 2017 when Flacco outplayed Siemian, but was still only a bottom third starting QB).

                      Don't expect Flacco to work miracles. He has never been anything besides an average QB (except for one playoff run with an all-time defense, he does deserve his credit for winning a superbowl).

                      I personally think that once Lock is even close to ready, you need to play him so he can develop. We know what Flacco is, and it's not good.
                      Last edited by BroncoStampede; 06-21-2019, 09:18 AM. Reason: added Flacco's 2010 numbers

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
                        No sorry!

                        It is an absolute misunderstanding about football. The job of the QB is to do enough to win games. If you can play defense and run the ball you do that and then lets your QB be the hero at the end.

                        If what you have is a Jay Cutler/Kirk Cousins kind of player that is great against bad teams, and fall apart every time they meet good competition, then you have to look for why that is. Trent Dilfer is the best example of what happens when you don't actually realise that while the defense is dominant the QB is adding the extra juice. Getting rid of Dilfer gave Ravens problems until they got Joe Flacco
                        Dilfer was nothing more than a backup caliber QB. Yes, you can win a Super Bowl with a historic defense and bad QB play, the problem is that formula doesn’t produce long term results beyond 1 season. It’s no coincidence that the teams that are playoff/Super Bowl contenders year after year have the best QBs.

                        It’s impossible to keep an historic defense together for more than a couple seasons. You can’t keep all the same players together, they get hurt, get old, move on to other teams, etc.

                        The goal should always be to find a franchise QB and build around that. You keep trying until you get one.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                          The Flacco hype this year is so reminiscent of the Keemun hype last year. Some serious deja vu
                          Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing. Flacco may actually have a hard being as good as Keenum was last year. Keenum outperformed Flacco in 2018 based on AV (which I showed in a previous post in this thread), we actually would have been better off just keeping Keenum and our 4th round pick.

                          Also, why isn't anyone asking why Baltimore would get rid of a QB "in his prime" for a measly 4th round draft pick? When Cutler was in his prime, he got us 2 first rounders. Flacco is old and just not very good, and really never was very good (except his magical 2012 post season that will never be replicated by him again - if you think it will, you should probably buy a power ball ticket).

                          Comment


                          • I’ll admit I chugged the Keenum Kool-Aid and that was a huge let down.
                            With Flacco what’s different is this is a hand picked guy by Elway. Elway believes in him and feels in the system that doesn’t rely on him throwing the ball 35-40 times a game is perfect.
                            Yes Keenum was picked by Elway but that was in my opinion him settling and hoping Darnold or Mayfield would be at 5 and Keenum would be the placeholder for a year or two ( something he failed to do with Paxton).

                            I don’t think Flacco will win the MVP, or even go to the pro bowl but with a solid run game and a great defense Denver could sneak into the playoffs.

                            At least that’s my hope in late June.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BroncoStampede View Post
                              I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but Joe Flacco is an average at best QB. Below are his career AV numbers. AV is a metric developed by Pro Football Reference which assigns a value number to a player for a particular season. It's kind of like WAR in baseball, AV just tries to measure a player's value to their team. I went through each season Flacco has been in the NFL and got his rank among all QBs for each season. The AV numbers are in parentheses and the number after it is Flacco's AV rank that season out of all QBs (there are 32 starting QBs in the NFL each season).

                              2018 Joe Flacco (7) 26th
                              2017 Joe Flacco (9) 22nd
                              2016 Joe Flacco (9) 24th
                              2015 Joe Flacco (5) 26th
                              2014 Joe Flacco (14) 10th
                              2013 Joe Flacco (8) 22nd
                              2012 Joe Flacco (13) 11th
                              2011 Joe Flacco (12) 12th
                              2010 Joe Flacco (12) 10th
                              2009 Joe Flacco (13) 10th
                              2008 Joe Flacco (11) 15th

                              For a frame of reference, below are the Broncos QBs for each season from 2008-2018.

                              2018 Case Keenum (9) 20th
                              2017 Trevor Siemian (4) 33rd
                              2016 Trevor Siemian (9) 24th
                              2015 Peyton Manning (2) 37th
                              2014 Peyton Manning (16) 3rd
                              2013 Peyton Manning (19) 1st
                              2012 Peyton Manning (15) 7th
                              2011 Tim Tebow (8) 20th
                              2010 Kyle Orton (11) 16th
                              2009 Kyle Orton (11) 14th
                              2008 Jay Cutler (15) 6th

                              What does all this mean? Well, in 2018 Keenum put up a better AV score than Flacco. With Flacco we should be expecting the same level of QB play we have had the past few years with Keenum and Siemian (except for 2017 when Flacco outplayed Siemian, but was still only a bottom third starting QB).

                              Don't expect Flacco to work miracles. He has never been anything besides an average QB (except for one playoff run with an all-time defense, he does deserve his credit for winning a superbowl).

                              I personally think that once Lock is even close to ready, you need to play him so he can develop. We know what Flacco is, and it's not good.
                              So what was Peyton’s AV in 2015 ? I would guess it was probably a lot lower than in 2012-14, and we know how that ended.

                              I do agree that getting are hopes up and expecting more out of a guy than he can give is unrealistic.
                              I think Flacco is good enough to not lose us games, keep defenses honest, and with his arm & size ( unlike Keenum) the entire field has to be defended.
                              With a run game and a solid defense Flacco doesn’t have to be Aaron Rodgers.

                              And the fact he has won in the postseason @New England , and @ Denver shouldn’t be overlooked.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                                So what was Peyton’s AV in 2015 ? I would guess it was probably a lot lower than in 2012-14, and we know how that ended.

                                I do agree that getting are hopes up and expecting more out of a guy than he can give is unrealistic.
                                I think Flacco is good enough to not lose us games, keep defenses honest, and with his arm & size ( unlike Keenum) the entire field has to be defended.
                                With a run game and a solid defense Flacco doesn’t have to be Aaron Rodgers.

                                And the fact he has won in the postseason @New England , and @ Denver shouldn’t be overlooked.
                                This training camp and pre-season will make things interesting if Lock looks good. Remember the infatuation with Chad Kelly last year? Lock is way better than him. If Flacco struggles early in the regular season and Lock was impressive in pre-season, it wont be long until we start hearing Lock chants at the stadium especially if the Broncos aren't winning right away.

                                As soon as the Broncos aren't winning, the pressure on Flacco will be immense. The only way he keeps his job is if he is an MVP candidate or the Broncos are running away with the division (or if Fangio is too stubborn to make a change, which very well might happen). I don't see an MVP for Flacco or a 12-4 season happening in my crystal ball.

                                I personally want Lock in there sooner rather than later, but understand it might be best for his development if he learns for awhile instead of being thrown to the wolves. I view Flacco as a half-season placeholder keeping the seat warm for the heir apparent.

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