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  • Wilkinson started the last seven games of 2018 at RG.

    O-Line coaches start their best five shuffled to their best spots. If one of the five can't go, they usually bring in number six and reshuffle, if necessary.

    In view of the fact that Wilkinson started at RG last year, I think they'd put him there if Leary can't go. Seems Schlottmann is number seven at the moment. If a T was needed during a game, a shuffle would probably happen.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
      You’ve had some great points in the discussion. I disagree about Wilkinson. I’m not sure if you replayed every snap with Bolles and Wilkinson - Wilkinson was much better and it wasn’t close.
      Wilkinson was beat by the speed rush a few times. I thought his punch looked weak especially for a guy his size. I’m also taking into account who he was playing against. I don’t think Wilkinson stepping into the starting LT would go well, maybe the run blocking improves as Bolles regressed in that area last season but I don’t think Wilkinson can hold up with the speed of these edge rushers and there are a lot of great ones in the league. Even in our division we have to deal with Frank Clark, Chris Jones (even though he’s an interior guy), Bosa, and Ingram. Oakland doesn’t have a lot but Ferrel/Hurst have a lot of potential and Key has a ton of speed. Then we face other guys like Garrett, Mack, Clowney, Watt, Griffen, Jones, Casey, Wake, Landry, Ngakoue, Campbell. Our oline is going to have their work cut out for them this season.

      Then again it could also be that he needs to get adjusted to playing on the left side. He looks better on the right side to me even if he still struggles with the speed rushers. His ability to get out in space at his size is very impressive and he’s definitely someone that can take big leaps under Munchak.

      Edit: Went back and watched the highlights of the game and in that video Wilkinson gave up 2 pressures and a sack. First pressure was a DB blitz, Williams gave a terrible chip that probably hurt more than helped but Wilkinson either recognized it too late or thought the ball would get out quick because he wasn’t in a hurry to get back far enough. 2nd pressure he got beat by speed to his outside shoulder, Hogan stepped up and bounced off the DT that destroyed the LG scrambled and took a sack. On the sack he took a strong punch and got pushed aside and the two edge rushers met at the QB. Run blocking was really good, only one bad play stood out and it wasn’t that bad. One run got blown up because the LG couldn’t take over the block despite Wilkinson hitting the guy and moving to the next level, that probably doesn’t happen with a better LG but Wilkinson also missed the block on the LB when he got to the 2nd level. He did free up David Williams for the only good run we had outside of the Hogan TD.

      On another note, Chaz Green is terrible
      Last edited by beastlyskronk; 08-22-2019, 07:20 AM.

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      • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
        Wilkinson started the last seven games of 2018 at RG.

        O-Line coaches start their best five shuffled to their best spots. If one of the five can't go, they usually bring in number six and reshuffle, if necessary.

        In view of the fact that Wilkinson started at RG last year, I think they'd put him there if Leary can't go. Seems Schlottmann is number seven at the moment. If a T was needed during a game, a shuffle would probably happen.
        I heard Wilkenson was gettingba Lot of work at the RG position this week. I may not agree with playing our starters much this week but it’ll be fun to see Wilkenson and Risner against Aaron Donald this week.
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        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
          Wilkinson was beat by the speed rush a few times. I thought his punch looked weak especially for a guy his size. I’m also taking into account who he was playing against. I don’t think Wilkinson stepping into the starting LT would go well, maybe the run blocking improves as Bolles regressed in that area last season but I don’t think Wilkinson can hold up with the speed of these edge rushers and there are a lot of great ones in the league. Even in our division we have to deal with Frank Clark, Chris Jones (even though he’s an interior guy), Bosa, and Ingram. Oakland doesn’t have a lot but Ferrel/Hurst have a lot of potential and Key has a ton of speed. Then we face other guys like Garrett, Mack, Clowney, Watt, Griffen, Jones, Casey, Wake, Landry, Ngakoue, Campbell. Our oline is going to have their work cut out for them this season.

          Then again it could also be that he needs to get adjusted to playing on the left side. He looks better on the right side to me even if he still struggles with the speed rushers. His ability to get out in space at his size is very impressive and he’s definitely someone that can take big leaps under Munchak.

          Edit: Went back and watched the highlights of the game and in that video Wilkinson gave up 2 pressures and a sack.First pressure was a DB blitz, Williams gave a terrible chip that probably hurt more than helped but Wilkinson either recognized it too late or thought the ball would get out quick because he wasn’t in a hurry to get back far enough. 2nd pressure he got beat by speed to his outside shoulder, Hogan stepped up and bounced off the DT that destroyed the LG scrambled and took a sack. On the sack he took a strong punch and got pushed aside and the two edge rushers met at the QB. Run blocking was really good, only one bad play stood out and it wasn’t that bad. One run got blown up because the LG couldn’t take over the block despite Wilkinson hitting the guy and moving to the next level, that probably doesn’t happen with a better LG but Wilkinson also missed the block on the LB when he got to the 2nd level. He did free up David Williams for the only good run we had outside of the Hogan TD.

          On another note, Chaz Green is terrible
          I replayed every snap, not just the highlights. He was not beat by speed rush a few times. That is an inaccurate statement unless our view of a pressure is different. I didn’t see any passes altered based on his protection. Unless you can cite the down and time on the clock, those speed rushes that supposedly got around him didn’t happen.

          Regarding the play when Lock was flushed out of the pocket, I agree he let the rusher get to Williams too quickly - he made the block but should have pushed him out. When Hogan was sacked it looked like they had the protection wrong because Wilkins sealed the inside where help wasn’t needed - not sure if that was his fault.

          An argument could be made that he isn’t ready as a starter at LT, but I feel like we’re in a good situation having him as depth as a swing tackle/guard. Bolles had 32 games and hasn’t consistently performed consistently - I believe this season, probably the first 4-6 games is his opportunity to prove himself.

          Scangarello made it a point to recognize Wilkinson - I believe his potential is higher than Bolles.
          Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-22-2019, 12:08 PM.

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          • 2nd and 11 9:36 3rd quarter was the DB blitz, looks like he recognized it late. May not have effected Hogan but it shows either a lack of recognition for the blitzing DB or a lack of respect for that DBs speed.

            3rd and 10 2:26 3rd quarter, wasn’t really a speed rush, rather a push/pull type deal and a rather weak one at that but Wilkinson’s man caused Hogan to step up into the DT before he bounced off and ran around a bit before the sack. Likely a sack even if Wilkinson holds up but I’m judging Wilkinson on what he did.

            3rd and 9 11:37 in the 4th quarter. Again this was likely a sack either way because the RT got beat so bad and kind of forced Hogan into Wilkinson’s man but I counted this as a bad play for him because you can see how off balance Wilkinson gets from the initial punch and from that moment he was already beat. Which is another issue with him, his hands seem weak. A good initial punch can get him off balance and even when he gets the first punch in he sometimes struggles with the counter moves that come after that initial rush.

            I’m at work now so I can’t watch the whole game and key in on him but speed rushes have given him issues throughout the preseason, it wasn’t just that DB screaming off the edge. Coincidentally though the INT that bounced off Williams hands, Wilkinson looked great there. If he can do that consistently he’d be able to handle most speed rushes. But if that was the case he’d likely be starting at LT already.

            As far as Wilkinson being recognized, I think that’s more of a shot at Leary. Leary isn’t a great fit for the zone scheme as a squatty power guy while Wilkinson is long and looks good getting to the 2nd level as well as having started at RG last year. Leary might be on the bubble. Bolles did have some very, very good pass reps in that game especially when Lock came in, it’s also when he started some of his funky under punch stuff but after going back a bit that might have been an adjustment he made because he was getting bull rushed back quite a ways when Flacco was in.

            I don’t think either is a great solution at LT at the moment and I think we should make the move for Trent Williams and move Bolles (or Wilkinson) to LG and have Risner play C. But at this point it’s probably too late for that

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            • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
              don’t think either is a great solution at LT at the moment and I think we should make the move for Trent Williams and move Bolles (or Wilkinson) to LG and have Risner play C. But at this point it’s probably too late for that
              Yeah if we were going to I think we missed the window to have it be an effective move for this upcoming season. I was in favor of the move, though unsure if we had the cap space, but like you say it's probably too late.


              I think we have to bite the bullet with Bolles this season, and who knows Wilkinson might be very young at the spot and could improve himself to push Bolles out of the spot.

              Risner I think is going to be awesome at Guard so I think at this point keeping him at the spot will be best for him even though I'm sure he could move over to play center for us down the road in a pinch.
              A book I wrote

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              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                2nd and 11 9:36 3rd quarter was the DB blitz, looks like he recognized it late. May not have effected Hogan but it shows either a lack of recognition for the blitzing DB or a lack of respect for that DBs speed.

                3rd and 10 2:26 3rd quarter, wasn’t really a speed rush, rather a push/pull type deal and a rather weak one at that but Wilkinson’s man caused Hogan to step up into the DT before he bounced off and ran around a bit before the sack. Likely a sack even if Wilkinson holds up but I’m judging Wilkinson on what he did.

                3rd and 9 11:37 in the 4th quarter. Again this was likely a sack either way because the RT got beat so bad and kind of forced Hogan into Wilkinson’s man but I counted this as a bad play for him because you can see how off balance Wilkinson gets from the initial punch and from that moment he was already beat. Which is another issue with him, his hands seem weak. A good initial punch can get him off balance and even when he gets the first punch in he sometimes struggles with the counter moves that come after that initial rush.

                I’m at work now so I can’t watch the whole game and key in on him but speed rushes have given him issues throughout the preseason, it wasn’t just that DB screaming off the edge. Coincidentally though the INT that bounced off Williams hands, Wilkinson looked great there. If he can do that consistently he’d be able to handle most speed rushes. But if that was the case he’d likely be starting at LT already.

                As far as Wilkinson being recognized, I think that’s more of a shot at Leary. Leary isn’t a great fit for the zone scheme as a squatty power guy while Wilkinson is long and looks good getting to the 2nd level as well as having started at RG last year. Leary might be on the bubble. Bolles did have some very, very good pass reps in that game especially when Lock came in, it’s also when he started some of his funky under punch stuff but after going back a bit that might have been an adjustment he made because he was getting bull rushed back quite a ways when Flacco was in.

                I don’t think either is a great solution at LT at the moment and I think we should make the move for Trent Williams and move Bolles (or Wilkinson) to LG and have Risner play C. But at this point it’s probably too late for that
                On the DB blitz at 9:36 in the 3rd quarter, Wilkinson had to account for the edge rusher before breaking off to help with the DB. The TE #86 did not make a good block on the DB. Wilkinson did a nice job of getting enough of the DB to force him far enough outside that he fell down trying to bend toward Hogan. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Wilkinson to take on the edge rusher and the DB, given the TE was there and didn’t execute.

                On the bull rush at 2:36 in the 3rd, you didn’t account for the interior pressure caused by the LG losing his block. Hogan had to step up but Wilkinson kept his block. Hogan ran into the DT because the LG didn’t do his job. It’s very clear when you look at the replay.

                On the play at 11:37 in the 4th quarter, the RT lost the edge to #95 of the 49ers. That’s why Hogan was flushed to his left. Wilkinson can’t be expected to block his man much longer than he did. This was a similar play from last season when Von sacked Wilson - Chubb forced Wilson out of the pocket by beating his man and right into Von for the sack.

                You’re isolating Wilkinson without accounting for other factors. The play at 11:37 in the 4th quarter is a perfect example. The sack was caused by the RT being beat badly off the edge by #95. It’s fine to talk about Wilkinson’s technique, but even if he was perfect on that play - the breakdown was the RT.
                Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-22-2019, 05:22 PM.

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                • Since we're talking Broncos o-line, about a player that just "got away":

                  Just watched Matt Paradis get driven right back to the QB by Michael Bennett on just straight power. That's a 275 pound player who just pushed him back like he was a HS center.

                  I like Paradis, but I think Carolina will regret that contract. PFF loved him a lot more than they should have.

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                  • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                    Since we're talking Broncos o-line, about a player that just "got away":

                    Just watched Matt Paradis get driven right back to the QB by Michael Bennett on just straight power. That's a 275 pound player who just pushed him back like he was a HS center.

                    I like Paradis, but I think Carolina will regret that contract. PFF loved him a lot more than they should have.
                    Matt will always need help against an odd front with a nasty 0 tech. He can't handle that alone. Making all the right line calls is one thing; making the blocks is another.
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                    • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      Matt will always need help against an odd front with a nasty 0 tech. He can't handle that alone. Making all the right line calls is one thing; making the blocks is another.
                      The alarming thing to me is that it's a guy who's relatively small (275 pounds) so he outweighs him by 25 pounds. But Bennett didn't even try to use speed, just straight drove him back into the QB.

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