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  • Elway is the man.

    I just finished watching this Chris Simms interview on picking Drew Lock (good listen for anyone interested). But what came up in the conversation was how Elway is getting crucified way too much for not getting a QB since Peyton.



    I agree completely with him. For everyone who wants us to bat 1000 in picking QB's just look at the overall statistics of Qb's picked to ratio of them succeeding. It's mind blowing low (if someone has that stat cp to you if posted).

    What Elway has shown is he doesn't die by his mistakes. He cuts the cord and continues searching for the players, coaches and personnel that will lead us to championships. Elway is going up against all kinds of adversity every year as the league changes and I believe he is doing a brilliant job in adapting. Whether it be Vance, Paxton, poor drafts or Case - Elway willingly learns from his mistakes. He doesn't go all Cutler and mope with his head down. Each poor decision Elway makes fires him up more! The same Elway as a player who threw his fare share of interceptions, would almost always atone for his mistakes when it mattered come crunch time.

    My Denver Broncos brothers and sisters. It's crunch time for Elway the GM. He loves his comebacks. I believe he just threw a TD bomb in hiring Vic Fangio and his staff to get us back in the game and can't wait to see how all this finishes over the next couple of years.
    Last edited by MarshallMoss; 04-30-2019, 07:16 PM.
    "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

  • #2
    Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:

    - G.Bolles, LT(who has got to be on thin ice)
    - D.Booker, RB
    - A.Gotsis, DE
    - D.Wolfe, DE
    - J.Heuerman, TE
    - A. Jonovitch
    - B.Langley (might not be here after PS etc.)
    - C.McGovern
    - W.Parks
    - J.Simmons

    Nearly ALL of them left at least are defensive players. Nearly ALL of our top lineman, WRs and or RBs either came form the two most recent drafts OR other teams. Furthermore our team opted to stick with Trevor S. even after he struggled mightily at the back-end of the 2016 season for the 2017 season. Our QB's as of late have NOT been great:
    - Brock
    - Trevor
    - Zac
    - Paxton
    - Case

    Although my issues with Elway are not just who is left or why we've done things. It is even deeper than that. For example Bolles is not the best OT from his draft class yet we picked him 1st out of all of them. We have seen a thinning of CBs on our roster and seemingly not back-filled any of them....More over if I touch on the Qbs again we are seemingly chasing the same elusive prospect. A big armed tall pocket passer. Which is great....if we had a top OL or at least a truly respectable one. Running the ball is one thing but passing is another. Our line was unable to perform when passing....these are all things which fall on Elway and the others who were evaluating talent.

    If we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again...and it doesn't work then we need to adapt and change....not just players but TYPES of players. IMO - it has taken Elway too long to adapt and even now he is showing that he hasn't fully bought into adapting fully.
    Last edited by Rich_C; 04-30-2019, 01:34 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
      Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:

      - G.Bolles, LT(who has got to be on thin ice)
      - D.Booker, RB
      - A.Gotsis, DE
      - D.Wolfe, DE
      - J.Heuerman, TE
      - A. Jonovitch
      - B.Langley (might not be here after PS etc.)
      - C.McGovern
      - W.Parks
      - J.Simmons

      Nearly ALL of them left at least are defensive players. Nearly ALL of our top lineman, WRs and or RBs either came form the two most recent drafts OR other teams. Furthermore our team opted to stick with Trevor S. even after he struggled mightily at the back-end of the 2016 season for the 2017 season. Our QB's as of late have NOT been great:
      - Brock
      - Trevor
      - Zac
      - Paxton
      - Case

      Although my issues with Elway are not just who is left or why we've done things. It is even deeper than that. For example Bolles is not the best OT from his draft class yet we picked him 1st out of all of them. We have seen a thinning of CBs on our roster and seemingly not back-filled any of them....More over if I touch on the Qbs again we are seemingly chasing the same elusive prospect. A big armed tall pocket passer. Which is great....if we had a top OL or at least a truly respectable one. Running the ball is one thing but passing is another. Our line was unable to perform when passing....these are all things which fall on Elway and the others who were evaluating talent.

      If we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again...and it doesn't work then we need to adapt and change....not just players but TYPES of players. IMO - it has taken Elway too long to adapt and even now he is showing that he hasn't fully bought into adapting fully.
      What if I told you this ratio of drafted players still on the team is pretty decent? What if i told you his free agency and ability to navigate the cap has also been really good? What if I told you his ability to recognize a mistake and move on quickly is invaluable? What if i told you John is also the best at turning undrafted players into something? There's far more to evaluating a GM than just draft picks.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SaltySnipes View Post
        What if I told you this ratio of drafted players still on the team is pretty decent? What if i told you his free agency and ability to navigate the cap has also been really good? What if I told you his ability to recognize a mistake and move on quickly is invaluable? What if i told you John is also the best at turning undrafted players into something? There's far more to evaluating a GM than just draft picks.
        Amen to all those points. I don't think there is too many GM's that would have let go of a coach that brought them to a Superbowl that same year. Elway has the moxie you need to be a long term successful franchise. There is only 2 or 3 teams that have been more successful as the Broncos for the last 30 years. Elway has been a major part in all 30 years. He knows what it takes and the competitor in him will never stop until he achieves it.

        Rich_C:

        Who else would you rather run our team? Better question would be if you could trade Elway the executive, who would it be for?
        "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
          Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:

          - G.Bolles, LT(who has got to be on thin ice)
          - D.Booker, RB
          - A.Gotsis, DE
          - D.Wolfe, DE
          - J.Heuerman, TE
          - A. Jonovitch
          - B.Langley (might not be here after PS etc.)
          - C.McGovern
          - W.Parks
          - J.Simmons

          Nearly ALL of them left at least are defensive players. Nearly ALL of our top lineman, WRs and or RBs either came form the two most recent drafts OR other teams. Furthermore our team opted to stick with Trevor S. even after he struggled mightily at the back-end of the 2016 season for the 2017 season. Our QB's as of late have NOT been great:
          - Brock
          - Trevor
          - Zac
          - Paxton
          - Case

          Although my issues with Elway are not just who is left or why we've done things. It is even deeper than that. For example Bolles is not the best OT from his draft class yet we picked him 1st out of all of them. We have seen a thinning of CBs on our roster and seemingly not back-filled any of them....More over if I touch on the Qbs again we are seemingly chasing the same elusive prospect. A big armed tall pocket passer. Which is great....if we had a top OL or at least a truly respectable one. Running the ball is one thing but passing is another. Our line was unable to perform when passing....these are all things which fall on Elway and the others who were evaluating talent.

          If we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again...and it doesn't work then we need to adapt and change....not just players but TYPES of players. IMO - it has taken Elway too long to adapt and even now he is showing that he hasn't fully bought into adapting fully.
          I am not sure the whole roster thing is as much an issue as some want or perceive it to be. The end goal is signing talent either through the draft, trade, or FA. We've had bad drafts recently but not so unusual compared to the entire league. Head-scratching picks? Sure Bolles vs. Ramczyk is a great example. You mention the thinning DB corps which is a valid point but it isn't as if there aren't other things at play, head coaching change, age, balancing the cap. All those factor in when trying to sign and/or maintain maintain the talent the team has. Overall I agree we can do better.

          But to the point of roster turnover, it happens. I remember an article some years back than mentioned in the span of 3 or 4 seasons (early 2010's) the Bengals had over 20 players still on the roster. In that span of time the best they could manage was losing in the Wild card round of the playoffs.

          Another team with a high turnover comes to mind... the Patriots.

          Ultimately the thought of not letting past mistakes define him, I think, is a good practice. He's tried (clearly ) what doesn't work, at time been forced or felt cornered to reach for what doesn't work, but is not willing to be stubborn and not learn from those mistakes. Sounds reasonable and if we look at the most recent two drafts it would appear we could be on the right path where that is concerned. If true, I can't find fault with that.

          What I can find fault with is "I truly think we’ve got a guy [Flacco] coming into his prime." Seriously? I'm all for giving Flacco the best opportunity to succeed but a few days at a mini-camp and we have a rejuvenated Flacco who isn't just playing well or great but coming in to his prime? John, John, John... :doh:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rastic View Post
            I am not sure the whole roster thing is as much an issue as some want or perceive it to be. The end goal is signing talent either through the draft, trade, or FA. We've had bad drafts recently but not so unusual compared to the entire league. Head-scratching picks? Sure Bolles vs. Ramczyk is a great example. You mention the thinning DB corps which is a valid point but it isn't as if there aren't other things at play, head coaching change, age, balancing the cap. All those factor in when trying to sign and/or maintain maintain the talent the team has. Overall I agree we can do better.

            But to the point of roster turnover, it happens. I remember an article some years back than mentioned in the span of 3 or 4 seasons (early 2010's) the Bengals had over 20 players still on the roster. In that span of time the best they could manage was losing in the Wild card round of the playoffs.

            Another team with a high turnover comes to mind... the Patriots.

            Ultimately the thought of not letting past mistakes define him, I think, is a good practice. He's tried (clearly ) what doesn't work, at time been forced or felt cornered to reach for what doesn't work, but is not willing to be stubborn and not learn from those mistakes. Sounds reasonable and if we look at the most recent two drafts it would appear we could be on the right path where that is concerned. If true, I can't find fault with that.

            What I can find fault with is "I truly think we’ve got a guy [Flacco] coming into his prime." Seriously? I'm all for giving Flacco the best opportunity to succeed but a few days at a mini-camp and we have a rejuvenated Flacco who isn't just playing well or great but coming in to his prime? John, John, John... :doh:
            Well, in all fairness John knows a big armed quarterback who had his best years between ages 35-38.
            sigpic
            Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Rastic View Post

              What I can find fault with is "I truly think we’ve got a guy [Flacco] coming into his prime." Seriously? I'm all for giving Flacco the best opportunity to succeed but a few days at a mini-camp and we have a rejuvenated Flacco who isn't just playing well or great but coming in to his prime? John, John, John... :doh:
              I wouldn't put too much stock into that. Elway knows Flacco is a bad QB on his last legs. Everyone around the league can see that fact. He had to say something like what he did out of respect to Flacco and to give some legitimacy to the move in the eyes of the players on the team.

              I put the over/under on Flacco's games started in a Broncos uniform at 13. Whether it be due to injury or his own poor play, Flacco is not here for long. We must all hope Lock works out the way I believe he can, his time will come soon.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rastic View Post
                What I can find fault with is "I truly think we’ve got a guy [Flacco] coming into his prime." Seriously? I'm all for giving Flacco the best opportunity to succeed but a few days at a mini-camp and we have a rejuvenated Flacco who isn't just playing well or great but coming in to his prime? John, John, John... :doh:
                When do you think Elway's prime was, or when he thinks it was?
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                  When do you think Elway's prime was, or when he thinks it was?
                  He won at the tail end of his career, manning too.... so maybe in his prime, is a personal experience. Flacco is old and brittle, but knows the game well enough to let the studs win while he supports...

                  Maybe?
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                    When do you think Elway's prime was, or when he thinks it was?
                    Elways Prime was from 93-97 but one could argue 85-90 he was a young stud just chucking the ball all over the place.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                      Well, in all fairness John knows a big armed quarterback who had his best years between ages 35-38.
                      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      When do you think Elway's prime was, or when he thinks it was?
                      Touché. Point made.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                        I wouldn't put too much stock into that. Elway knows Flacco is a bad QB on his last legs. Everyone around the league can see that fact. He had to say something like what he did out of respect to Flacco and to give some legitimacy to the move in the eyes of the players on the team.

                        I put the over/under on Flacco's games started in a Broncos uniform at 13. Whether it be due to injury or his own poor play, Flacco is not here for long. We must all hope Lock works out the way I believe he can, his time will come soon.
                        Elway was just was dying to get rid of the 4th round pick this year. He was pumped to find someone willing to take the burden of selecting a player off his hands by accepting a garbage player in Flacco.

                        I can see why so many people are against Elway when they have such delusional ideas about his strategy.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                          Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:

                          - G.Bolles, LT(who has got to be on thin ice)
                          - D.Booker, RB
                          - A.Gotsis, DE
                          - D.Wolfe, DE
                          - J.Heuerman, TE
                          - A. Jonovitch
                          - B.Langley (might not be here after PS etc.)
                          - C.McGovern
                          - W.Parks
                          - J.Simmons

                          Nearly ALL of them left at least are defensive players. Nearly ALL of our top lineman, WRs and or RBs either came form the two most recent drafts OR other teams. Furthermore our team opted to stick with Trevor S. even after he struggled mightily at the back-end of the 2016 season for the 2017 season. Our QB's as of late have NOT been great:
                          - Brock
                          - Trevor
                          - Zac
                          - Paxton
                          - Case

                          Although my issues with Elway are not just who is left or why we've done things. It is even deeper than that. For example Bolles is not the best OT from his draft class yet we picked him 1st out of all of them. We have seen a thinning of CBs on our roster and seemingly not back-filled any of them....More over if I touch on the Qbs again we are seemingly chasing the same elusive prospect. A big armed tall pocket passer. Which is great....if we had a top OL or at least a truly respectable one. Running the ball is one thing but passing is another. Our line was unable to perform when passing....these are all things which fall on Elway and the others who were evaluating talent.

                          If we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again...and it doesn't work then we need to adapt and change....not just players but TYPES of players. IMO - it has taken Elway too long to adapt and even now he is showing that he hasn't fully bought into adapting fully.
                          I cant stand it when people want to exclude this draft or that draft from a GMs resume. You ever think that maybe Elway is getting better at his job? He is still relatively new at being a GM. Name me 1 GM that hit home runs on every pick or has every player on their roster from every draft. If that were the case there wouldn't be a need for free agency.

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                          • #14
                            Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:
                            Why you wouldn't include the two most recent that he absolutely nailed?

                            It's like you complain just to complain.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                              Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:

                              - G.Bolles, LT(who has got to be on thin ice)
                              - D.Booker, RB
                              - A.Gotsis, DE
                              - D.Wolfe, DE
                              - J.Heuerman, TE
                              - A. Jonovitch
                              - B.Langley (might not be here after PS etc.)
                              - C.McGovern
                              - W.Parks
                              - J.Simmons

                              Nearly ALL of them left at least are defensive players. Nearly ALL of our top lineman, WRs and or RBs either came form the two most recent drafts OR other teams. Furthermore our team opted to stick with Trevor S. even after he struggled mightily at the back-end of the 2016 season for the 2017 season. Our QB's as of late have NOT been great:
                              - Brock
                              - Trevor
                              - Zac
                              - Paxton
                              - Case

                              Although my issues with Elway are not just who is left or why we've done things. It is even deeper than that. For example Bolles is not the best OT from his draft class yet we picked him 1st out of all of them. We have seen a thinning of CBs on our roster and seemingly not back-filled any of them....More over if I touch on the Qbs again we are seemingly chasing the same elusive prospect. A big armed tall pocket passer. Which is great....if we had a top OL or at least a truly respectable one. Running the ball is one thing but passing is another. Our line was unable to perform when passing....these are all things which fall on Elway and the others who were evaluating talent.

                              If we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again...and it doesn't work then we need to adapt and change....not just players but TYPES of players. IMO - it has taken Elway too long to adapt and even now he is showing that he hasn't fully bought into adapting fully.
                              I think your complaining just to complain

                              For one check out averages for draftees staying on a team past the first contract

                              Second you have this vision that a gm should hit on every pick and elway is the only one that doesn’t ... but you don’t consider players elway drafted who left in FA and are still playing in the league

                              Like trevathan, paradise, MJ

                              Third you act like the draft, scouting, building the board is entirely on elway and elway alone

                              Fourth, to say elway cannot adapt or takes too long to adapt is a joke

                              He built one of the greatest offenses ever seen in the game and got destroyed by a great defense in the SB

                              He adapted

                              Two years later elway took one of the greatest defenses ever seen and won the SB
                              sigpic
                              when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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