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  • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    That existed even with Trevethan in Denver, and had to do with the scheme that Phillips ran, and that Joseph and company decided to keep. When you run with 5 men on the LOS all the time, and almost always commit them all to coming forward you're asking a LB to go a long way to cover a player who's probably a little faster than him.

    While the new scheme will often have players in similar positions to start, the bigger reliance on zone and the Broncos defense playing more match and read coverage it should fix things a lot. It'll make it a lot easier to cover those players than a standard cover 1/0 makes it.

    For those unfamiliar with a read coverage, you'll have two defenders against two receivers, but they're reading the receivers and waiting for whichever one runs towards them. It's a zone coverage to start but turns to man coverage a lot quicker than a typical zone coverage would.
    This is why I like Fangio so much, he has the ability to get the best out of his players in such designed looks and coverages. I was never a fan of zone coverage during a time in the Shanahan era but I’m pretty confident with it now under Fangio!

    Alexander Johnson and Josh Watson looked pretty good to me in camp.

    Quick side note and in case not everyone has heard but Alexander Johnson has requested that he no longer be referred to as AJ but called by his actual name of Alexander.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 07-28-2019, 09:04 PM.
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    • Agree with Butler. A pass-covering ILB isn't as vital in a zone-match scheme because you're only having to match a route for a fraction of the time, rather than playing man coverage from A to Z on a play.

      That's why we felt safe passing on Devin Bush.

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      • Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
        Agree with Butler. A pass-covering ILB isn't as vital in a zone-match scheme because you're only having to match a route for a fraction of the time, rather than playing man coverage from A to Z on a play.

        That's why we felt safe passing on Devin Bush.
        It works well until a speedy RB runs a route when D is in Cover 1 with an ILB in coverage.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
          It works well until a speedy RB runs a route when D is in Cover 1 with an ILB in coverage.
          This makes me think of Edelman and the short pass from Brady however I think Johnson or Watson could more than handle it.
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          • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
            This makes me think of Edelman and the short pass from Brady however I think Johnson or Watson could more than handle it.
            I can only hope so they are now like 50 plus in years of age if a younger LB cannot cover then it shall be the Axe for the LBS lol.

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            • Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
              Agree with Butler. A pass-covering ILB isn't as vital in a zone-match scheme because you're only having to match a route for a fraction of the time, rather than playing man coverage from A to Z on a play.

              That's why we felt safe passing on Devin Bush.
              I think that’s a bit dated. The ILBs are going to have to run out to the flats so they’ll be in a foot race with a RB, they’ll still have to pass receivers off to the next defender and play design can really screw that up. Zone coverage will almost always become man coverage at some point in the play.

              For example if we’re playing a Cover 3 out of a nickle formation and one S is playing as a robber with the other S playing centerfield, one LB is going to have to take a flat whether it’s an OLB and we’re only rushing 4 or it’s an ILB and we’re rushing 5 while the other ILB will probably be in a middle zone near the S. Say the offense runs an intermediate crossing route with a slot receiver running a drag underneath while the RB runs an angle route, that’s a lot of keys for everyone to read. Theoretically the LB in the flat would take that drag and stop it for a minimal gain, the S would pass off the crosser to the LB while the LB passes that angle route off to the S simultaneously. But as has been the case with our zone defense the past few seasons, that S may chase the crossing route and now that LB has to run with that RB if he even notices that the S has vacated his side of the field.

              I don’t like zone coverage unless you have a lot of either smart defenders that are on the same page (like the Legion of Boom) or you have a bunch of fast defenders that can cover up each other’s mistakes. Our defense isn’t fast enough to be the second so they’re going to have to all be on the same page for this to work. Although with our pass rushers, we should be able to speed up QBs and our cover guys shouldn’t be forced to have to turn and run with guys.

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              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                I think that’s a bit dated. The ILBs are going to have to run out to the flats so they’ll be in a foot race with a RB, they’ll still have to pass receivers off to the next defender and play design can really screw that up. Zone coverage will almost always become man coverage at some point in the play.

                For example if we’re playing a Cover 3 out of a nickle formation and one S is playing as a robber with the other S playing centerfield, one LB is going to have to take a flat whether it’s an OLB and we’re only rushing 4 or it’s an ILB and we’re rushing 5 while the other ILB will probably be in a middle zone near the S. Say the offense runs an intermediate crossing route with a slot receiver running a drag underneath while the RB runs an angle route, that’s a lot of keys for everyone to read. Theoretically the LB in the flat would take that drag and stop it for a minimal gain, the S would pass off the crosser to the LB while the LB passes that angle route off to the S simultaneously. But as has been the case with our zone defense the past few seasons, that S may chase the crossing route and now that LB has to run with that RB if he even notices that the S has vacated his side of the field.

                I don’t like zone coverage unless you have a lot of either smart defenders that are on the same page (like the Legion of Boom) or you have a bunch of fast defenders that can cover up each other’s mistakes. Our defense isn’t fast enough to be the second so they’re going to have to all be on the same page for this to work. Although with our pass rushers, we should be able to speed up QBs and our cover guys shouldn’t be forced to have to turn and run with guys.
                WoW Great Insight ! I have never been a Fan of the Zone Defense what so ever only because the Smart QB's like the Peyton Manning's, Andrew Luck's will always find the soft spot in Zone for Big Gains time and time again. With that being said if there is one guy who change my opinion is Coach Fangio only because of the Body of Work he has done in the Past with the 49ers and the Chicago Bears.

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                • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
                  WoW Great Insight ! I have never been a Fan of the Zone Defense what so ever only because the Smart QB's like the Peyton Manning's, Andrew Luck's will always find the soft spot in Zone for Big Gains time and time again. With that being said if there is one guy who change my opinion is Coach Fangio only because of the Body of Work he has done in the Past with the 49ers and the Chicago Bears.
                  No doubt Fangio is the guy!

                  I was surprised at how well the legion of Boom was under Gin but I quickly realized how talented a bunch he had to work with. If gin could have such success with those animals I’m sure Fangio will as well with these Broncos.

                  We lack in the linebacker department but I have a ton of faith in our pass rush and secondary. I think we are going to see a lot of turn over this season based on talent and the amount of time dedicated during camp where I saw defenders stripping at the football.

                  Bryce Callahan and Kareem Jackson are very smart zone guys. CHJ, we’ll we all know he’s the man so I could see the zone scheme having great success in Denver.
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                  • Talking defense, here's a reason I'm not worried about the Broncos covering TEs and RBs like we have in the past. Last year Denver led the league in playing base defense at 45% of the time. So covering the TE and RB was the responsibility of the ILB and because of the scheme they were at a disadvantage. Meanwhile, the Bears played Nickel defense on 80% of the downs they played. They played dime 5% of the time and Base just 15% of the time.

                    So you're going to see smaller/faster players on the field more, and they'll be covering those TEs and RBs. In addition to more zone and match/read stuff.

                    This article has some gifs that show the difference in coverage between last year and this year.

                    https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/...roncos-preview

                    Here's an article on exactly how Fangio uses coverages.

                    https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/...gios-coverages


                    Final point, and this might be the biggest one, Fangio does a lot of disguising to confuse the QB presnap. So the QB should have less idea of what the coverage will be. The last two years the Broncos did little to no disguising of things, and they didn't do much coverage wise, so it was easier for the QB to play throw and catch with the TEs and RBs. this year I suspect the RB wheels and TE crossing routes will be a lot harder to complete as the QB tries to figure out what the coverage actually is.

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                    • According to Klis and Renck.... Flacco and Sutton already have good chemistry and dominated the day. If Sutton can climb to that next level that just makes this team that much more dangerous

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                      • Camp day 10

                        https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/...day-10-updates
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                        • Appears Simmons is having a pretty good camp.
                          Nicki posted this about 45 minutes ago....
                          [URL=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/Saddletramp69/media/asdf.jpg.html][/URL
                          Adopted player Lindsey

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                          • Jeff Heuerman needs to get his act together (if he’s even capable?) Flacco delivers the ball that went off his hands to Simmons. Dropped passes continue to be an issue.

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                            • Originally posted by Saddletramp View Post
                              Appears Simmons is having a pretty good camp.
                              Nicki posted this about 45 minutes ago....
                              Simmons I feel I can safely say is going to finally have his breakout year.
                              Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                                Jeff Heuerman needs to get his act together (if he’s even capable?) Flacco delivers the ball that went off his hands to Simmons. Dropped passes continue to be an issue.
                                Fant will be the starter anyway, Jeff will be relegated to backup work in a few weeks

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