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Phillip Lindsay #68 on NFL's Top 100 Players of 2019

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  • #16
    Would be cool if there was a "Yards after Expected Contact" stat to measure elusiveness.

    You could take the average Yard Before Contact for all backs on the team and see how much a back raises or reduces the average.

    Or you could take a PFF approach and watch each replay and calculate the extra yards gained each time a back makes a tackler miss, or gets through a gap too quick for contact. Would be a lot more subjective, but would be interesting data.

    I think we're about 5-10 years before machine learning can start evaluating these things fairly objectively. That'll lead to some super gnarly stats to crunch when evaluating players.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hadez View Post
      There is the stat somewhere Can.

      Last year during our high moment game stretch when we thought maybe we could make the playoffs the broadcasters showed this stat during the game.

      Actually they showed two really interesting stats at that time.

      Lindsay was top 5 in the NFL in yards before contact.

      Freeman was top 5 in the NFL in yards after contact.

      There were min carries pre-qualifiers but I do not remember what they were. I can figure out what game this came out if you want but it will take some time.
      Thx my friend. I should have done more research, but down deep I was hoping I had invented a new stat!

      But the Lindsay/Freeman stats you mention are intriguing. Like the perfect combo!! Thx for that!

      Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
      Would be cool if there was a "Yards after Expected Contact" stat to measure elusiveness.

      You could take the average Yard Before Contact for all backs on the team and see how much a back raises or reduces the average.

      Or you could take a PFF approach and watch each replay and calculate the extra yards gained each time a back makes a tackler miss, or gets through a gap too quick for contact. Would be a lot more subjective, but would be interesting data.

      I think we're about 5-10 years before machine learning can start evaluating these things fairly objectively. That'll lead to some super gnarly stats to crunch when evaluating players.
      I like progress, although in some sports I am taking a little longer to commit to certain stats. I revert to those stats I prefer in some cases. BUT as I say, progress is good! And as you mention, it needs to be supported by effective analysis.:thumb:

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Hadez View Post
        I think it has to do with Lindsay's vision. It truly amazes me how many times Lindsay ran untouched for 10+ yards. Not just on outside runs but sometimes he found a hole between the tackles that allowed him to run untouched for 10+ yards. Yea some of it is how good our run blocking was at multiple levels but the rook was still able to anticipate the holes with the speed to fully take advantage of them.

        Lindsay is also deceptively powerful. Not saying he is a power back...by that I mean if the defense tries to arm tackle him Lindsay has shown he will run through it. Another back who had Lindsay's speed and moves was Tatum Bell but once the defenders got their hands on Tatum he went down.

        It will be very interesting to see how defensive coords try to limit these kinds of runs and how our offensive coaches try to exploit this. IMO our run blocking will get better so it is just up to the coaching to push this beast to the next level.
        I may be showing my age here, but Lindsey doesnt remind me of Tatum.

        IMO, he is closer to Tony Dorsett. And I dont make that comparison lightly. The two are remarkably similar in almost everything. Elusive, instant acceleration, strong enough to run through most arm tackles, and blazing speed once breaking into the secondary. He runs with the same style as Tony did too...gets the ball, makes his move and BAM, he's gone. Nothing too fancy either, just one, maybe two moves and hits the jets. Neither spent much time trying outjuke anyone, they just take an angle and try to blow past.
        Last edited by MH Stampede; 07-30-2019, 01:40 AM.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
          i am not sure if he is faster then portis in his prime here. Portis ran a 4.33 out of college and lindsey ran a 4.40 which are at least comparable, but i don't think you can call lindsey faster then portis when he was here. before he bulked up for washington.
          As great as Lindsey is, he is a much different player than Portis.
          Portis was substantially stronger, and had almost 50% more carries per game in 2002-03.
          Lindsey plays faster, and is more elusive but I fear that he will get injured a lot more.
          As much as I love the story of Philip Lindsey, but Portis never has as unproductive games as Lindsey has had. Lindsey's worst game produced 1.71 yards per attempt, while Portis worst in Denver produced 3.0.
          Statistically Lindsey looks a lot more like Tatum Bell, while still weaker than Tinkerbell Lindsey is the most elusive runner I have seen for the Broncos. I hope that with Joe Flacco we will use Lindsey's speed more like KC has used Tyreek Hill, and I think those two are much more alike in body type and how they move, and some sort of a RB/Quick Elusive WR might be a very good use.
          Last edited by BroncoFanDK; 07-29-2019, 03:41 AM.

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          • #20
            Is there any other Broncos on this list other than Von? They're in the top 30 now. Hard to believe they'd put CHJ top 30 considering how little he seems to go unnoticed

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Dotst View Post
              Is there any other Broncos on this list other than Von? They're in the top 30 now. Hard to believe they'd put CHJ top 30 considering how little he seems to go unnoticed
              But wouldn’t it be harder to believe he wouldn’t make top 100 if he hasn’t shown up yet?
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              • #22
                Yeah that's what I'm saying. He shouldve been on this list already

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                • #23
                  Very much looking forward to seeing some of the runs he may break for us this year. I think if he was healthy we might have won those games down the stretch. When he went down all hope for our season last year went with him. He took a lot of pressure off the offense and was explosive.

                  Proud to own his jersey brought me one last week should be in this week hopefully in time for that HOF game
                  :go:

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MH Stampede View Post
                    I may be showing my age here, but Lindsey doesnt remind me of Tatum.

                    IMO, he is closer to Tony Dorsett. And I dont make that comparison lightly. The two are remarkably similar in almost everything. Elusive, instant acceleration, strong enough to run through most arm tackles, and blazing speed once breaking into the secondary. He runs with the same style as Tony did too...gets the ball, makes his move and BAM, he's gone. Nothing too fancy either, just one, maybe two moves and hits the jets. Neither spent much time trying outjuke anyone, they just take an angle and try to blow past.
                    I think what Lindsay does in the off season in term of physically preparing will have a lot to do with if he takes the Bell path or the Dorsett path.

                    He definitely has the natural talent to be better than a guy in Tatum who went on to work at the cell phone booth in the mall before getting called back to the Broncos to fill in for the injury ravaged 2008 Broncos
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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