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  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    It’s not Ellis and the trustees responsibility to mandate a staff shakeup. If you have to hold the GM’s hand to make changes, you’ve got the wrong guy.
    and from what experience are you basing this?
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    • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
      Of course Elway gets credit for bringing in Manning and a windfall of FAs that brought us all that exciting football for 3 seasons.

      He failed to build a team to carry the torch. Oline has been awful even in the Manning years. TE coverage and TE have been a constant issue. MLB, ST. It’s all been a consistent problem.

      He has made a slew of bad personnel and coaching decisions that have culminated into the awful product we’re currently watching.
      Great post, I agree 100%, gotta remember it’s a business and right now the product is extremely bad.

      I do not believe this horrible recurring performance on the field is what Pat wanted!!

      People with orange glasses seem to forget this is a business first and right now the Denver franchise is most likely a league laughing stock.

      This doesn’t happen, not to this franchise!

      We are not the Cleveland Browns or San Diego Chargers. These are the historic Denver Broncos, or at least they were until ppl started giving free passes based on past performances.

      Hey Josh McDaniels was Pats choice back in 2009, shouldn’t that alone had been enough to allow him the time to rectify his situation in Denver? Why does John get so much time while no one else does!

      Josh has also got a better resume than John Elway does right now. We could always bring him back, I mean he’s got 8 straight division titles and 3 super bowl victories now! Can’t we give him the same chance we’re giving John.

      It’s not madness it’s just to prove a point and there’s no right way to screw everything up lol

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      • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
        Great post, I agree 100%, gotta remember it’s a business and right now the product is extremely bad.

        I do not believe this horrible recurring performance on the field is what Pat wanted!!

        People with orange glasses seem to forget this is a business first and right now the Denver franchise is most likely a league laughing stock.

        This doesn’t happen, not this franchise! We are not the Cleveland Browns or San Diego Chargers. These are the historic Denver Broncos, or at least they were until ppl started giving free passes based on past performances.

        Hey Josh McDaniels was Pats choice, shouldn’t that alone had been enough to allow him the time to rectify his situation in Denver?

        He’s also got a better resume than John Elway does right now, we could always bring him back, I mean he’s got 8 straight division titles and 3 super bowl victories now! Can’t we give him the same chance we’re giving John.

        It’s not madness it’s just to prove a point and there’s no right way to screw everything up lol
        McDaniels got caught cheating, video taping other teams, he is a disgrace. Loyalty is valued in this franchise, they don't kick people to the curb that given everything they have to it!
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        • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
          I understand he won a super bowl, I think we all do and that is the only argument in his favor anymore but things change and ppl change.

          This horrible collapse that’s never really happened to this franchise until now is only going to further tarnish his legacy.

          I agree he needs to be relieved soon otherwise this is going to follow him around im the same fashion as the three super bowl losses did until 1997-98!

          The only difference now is that he doesn’t have physical control over the games as he did then.
          The comment in bold is a very interesting point IMO. It’s hard to know if any of his legacy has been tarnished. Someone can have a lot of good will built from their success and contributions.

          It is important to know when you are no longer the right person for the job. It goes beyond Elway’s personal legacy. He is damaging the franchise through incompetence. Nobody denies the success. However he did not effectively prepare for the post-Manning era. He’s tried to makeup for mistakes only to see the Broncos fall further.

          There’s this old saying, “Don’t wear out your welcome”. If Elway hangs on too long he runs the risk of finishing his career with a franchise in ruin. Let’s be candid, this franchise is at the bottom of the league and he is largely responsible.

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          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
            The comment in bold is a very interesting point IMO. It’s hard to know if any of his legacy has been tarnished. Someone can have a lot of good will built from their success and contributions.

            It is important to know when you are no longer the right person for the job. It goes beyond Elway’s personal legacy. He is damaging the franchise through incompetence. Nobody denies the success. However he did not effectively prepare for the post-Manning era. He’s tried to makeup for mistakes only to see the Broncos fall further.

            There’s this old saying, “Don’t wear out your welcome”. If Elway hangs on too long he runs the risk of finishing his career with a franchise in ruin. Let’s be candid, this franchise is at the bottom of the league and he is largely responsible.
            Every time I hear someone repeat the 5 division titles and super bowl 50 comments I can’t help but compare the other side of that coin which consists of
            First Back to back losing seasons since 1972

            First 0-3 Broncos in 52 years

            First team to record zero sacks, zero turnovers in 50 years.

            More first round fails and draft misses out of all broncos GMs of the past.

            Pat Bowlen had just 4 head coaches from 1983-2010 27 years

            John has had 4 different head coaches in just 9 seasons.

            We want to be soo patient with John but is he really any better than Pat Bowlens choice back in 2009.

            Why didn’t John give Josh the same time to redeem himself that they wish to give John?

            Since they keep repeating the 5 straight division titles and super bowl victory, Josh has 8 division titles and 3 super bowl rings now as an offensive coordinator, I wonder would theh support bringing him back to rectify his situation in Denver?
            Last edited by Sam_Z; 09-22-2019, 09:35 PM.

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            • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
              McDaniels got caught cheating, video taping other teams, he is a disgrace. Loyalty is valued in this franchise, they don't kick people to the curb that given everything they have to it!
              All I’m going to say is, “john cheated the salary cap to get paid and Mark Schlereth wore Vaseline on his jersey”.

              Lmao sorry I couldn’t help my myself.

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              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                The comment in bold is a very interesting point IMO. It’s hard to know if any of his legacy has been tarnished. Someone can have a lot of good will built from their success and contributions.

                It is important to know when you are no longer the right person for the job. It goes beyond Elway’s personal legacy. He is damaging the franchise through incompetence. Nobody denies the success. However he did not effectively prepare for the post-Manning era. He’s tried to makeup for mistakes only to see the Broncos fall further.

                There’s this old saying, “Don’t wear out your welcome”. If Elway hangs on too long he runs the risk of finishing his career with a franchise in ruin. Let’s be candid, this franchise is at the bottom of the league and he is largely responsible.
                If Elway was worried about tarnishing his legacy he wouldn't have taken the job when Pat Bowlen asked him to help rebuild the teams identify after McDaniels got caught cheating. He's the only GM's in our division to win a conference title or Superbowl. He should have the option to play out his contract, he has earned it.
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                • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                  great post, I agree 100%, got to stay loyal to the franchise and trust they will figure out how to get this thing turned around!
                  The blame game is easy but fruitless
                  You do you. Fine. But I ask seriously, how many losing seasons would you endure before you call Elway’s leadership into question? There is nine years’ worth of statistical data to show he has drastically underperformed in drafting (which is 70% of a GM’s job). All other problems stem from scientifically confirmed bad drafting.

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                  • Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                    All I’m going to say is, “john cheated the salary cap to get paid and Mark Schlereth wore Vaseline on his jersey”.

                    Lmao sorry I couldn’t help my myself.
                    Yep Elway let the team use his salary to build the stadium and pay him later, also took a pay cut so the broncos could sign Neil Smith. Guy has done more than anybody for this franchise.
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                    • As I have always said, if it were Matt Russell as GM since 2011 instead of John Elway, with the same draft picks, and coaches, same record, and name culture, Elway-fanatics would have called for his firing after 2018. They simply can’t delineate good quarterback from bad GM.

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                      • Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                        You do you. Fine. But I ask seriously, how many losing seasons would you endure before you call Elway’s leadership into question? There is nine years’ worth of statistical data to show he has drastically underperformed in drafting (which is 70% of a GM’s job). All other problems stem from scientifically confirmed bad drafting.
                        I'm not Joe Ellis, Elway has earned the right to finish his contract. Has achieved more than all 3 of the GM's in this division combined.
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                        • Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                          As I have always said, if it were Matt Russell as GM since 2011 instead of John Elway, with the same draft picks, and coaches, same record, and name culture, Elway-fanatics would have called for his firing after 2018. They simply can’t delineate good quarterback from bad GM.
                          elway fanatics? The proper term is broncos fans. Same group that celebrated the Superbowl 50 win.
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                          • Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
                            As I have always said, if it were Matt Russell as GM since 2011 instead of John Elway, with the same draft picks, and coaches, same record, and name culture, Elway-fanatics would have called for his firing after 2018. They simply can’t delineate good quarterback from bad GM.
                            Exactly except they would’ve been calling for his head back in 2014!

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                            • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                              Yep Elway let the team use his salary to build the stadium and pay him later, also took a pay cut so the broncos could sign Neil Smith. Guy has done more than anybody for this franchise.
                              Yes, Elway has done most for the Broncos. Yes, he took a pay cut to help win an SB as a player.

                              Fast forward to 2019, only one franchise (Bills)) has drafted worse since 2011. We are a team lacking talent everywhere. That is a direct result of his horrendous 1st and 2nd round picks. There is nothing to debate about his drafting.

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                              • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                                elway fanatics? The proper term is broncos fans. Same group that celebrated the Superbowl 50 win.
                                No not necessarily because you guys are putting John and his failures before the broncos franchise as a whole.

                                Yes 5 division titles and 1 Super Bowl victory. So what, Dan Reeves coached this same franchise to 3 Super Bowls, could you justify supporting him as a bronco alumni that represents the Denver Broncos?

                                I highly doubt it!

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